Felons and Firearms

[billt]

I say anything that empowers individuals - especially knowledge - is all good

That has been in steady decline for the last 4 decades. Something else that isn't the governments fault.

 

[Burt Gummer]

Yep, possibly the world's worst public education system is not the government's fault and a total failure.

But government is getting what it wants. Unthinking, never questioning drones. So I guess that is the positive side. Always nice to get what you pay for ...

 

[billt]

Yep, possibly the world's worst public education system is not the government's fault and a total failure.

But government is getting what it wants. Unthinking, never questioning drones. So I guess that is the positive side. Always nice to get what you pay for ...

The government cannot be parents to the kids it is required to educate. They have them 30 hours a week, sometimes less. The other 138 hours a week it is up to the parents. They are the ones who are failing their own children, not the government. The kids are graduating as idiots because their parents are idiots.

SAT scores have been steadily dropping for the last 40 years. There is no discipline in the classroom anymore because there is none in the home. Teachers are told daily to go F' themselves. Teenage girls dress like red light district tramps, and fight like men. If teachers so much as touch one of these disrespectful little rodents, they will lose their careers, and the entire school district will be on the receiving end of a 7 digit law suit. None of this is the fault of the government.

A government is nothing more than a product of it's people. When you have a nation that is behaving like a bunch of idiots, how can you expect any different from the government, or the kids who are being raised within? How can you possibly have a stellar, freedom loving government that preaches self reliance, when you have an electorate full of government dependant morons who can't save a dime because they buy everything they see with borrowed money they don't have? Then turn right around and blame the government when they are broke. They then complain when they wind up with a government that does much the same thing.

Our current sitting President has never worked a day in his entire life. Yet in spite of that he's spending us into bankruptcy. Sound familiar? Idiot populous = idiot government. If the American people are so damn disgusted with their elected officials, along with the way they are running things, all they have to do is look in the mirror as to the reason why. The apple never falls far from the tree. I have to laugh when I hear how the government is "trying to control our kids", when their own parents can't even do it. That's like trying to herd cats. It doesn't take any brains to sit on the curb and b!tch about the government 24/7, and blame them for your childs stupidity. On the other hand, it takes more than a 15 minute sex act to call yourself a parent.

 

[rolandson]

I think the topic was 'felons and firearms' and posed the question of reinstatement of a convicted felon possessing firearms after they have been discharged from supervision, correct?

To that I would say that it falls under the 'regulated' part of 2A (the drafters built-in "interference" clause if you like) and that one convicted of a felony has demonstrated a sufficient lack of sound judgement such that this form of 'regulation' is not only appropriate, but...to the victim of violent crime, after having received the notification from the Oregon VINE system, that the person convicted of trying to kill them has been released, it is welcomed.

 

[dmancornell]

The government distorted nothing. You had a bunch of idiots who over borrowed money they had no chance of paying back, run out and buy anything and everything they could get their hands on.

Implying the presence of cheap credit created by the federal reserve did not distort the real estate market by increasing demand of homes, hence increasing the price.

Likewise, the same argument for the cheap credit boom of the 20's, with the same culprit in the federal reserve.

Total, utter economics 101 fail, and predictably coming from a guy who claims FOPA86 did not distort the machine gun market.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Yep, possibly the world's worst public education system is not the government's fault and a total failure.

But government is getting what it wants. Unthinking, never questioning drones. So I guess that is the positive side. Always nice to get what you pay for ...

I am completely and totally against publick edumacation

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I think the topic was 'felons and firearms' and posed the question of reinstatement of a convicted felon possessing firearms after they have been discharged from supervision, correct?

To that I would say that it falls under the 'regulated' part of 2A (the drafters built-in "interference" clause if you like) and that one convicted of a felony has demonstrated a sufficient lack of sound judgement such that this form of 'regulation' is not only appropriate, but...to the victim of violent crime, after having received the notification from the Oregon VINE system, that the person convicted of trying to kill them has been released, it is welcomed.

Again the violent part is where I draw the line for restoration of certain liberties, and IMO most serious violent convicted criminals should be executed anyway

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Implying the presence of cheap credit created by the federal reserve did not distort the real estate market by increasing demand of homes, hence increasing the price.

Likewise, the same argument for the cheap credit boom of the 20's, with the same culprit in the federal reserve.

Total, utter economics 101 fail, and predictably coming from a guy who claims FOPA86 did not distort the machine gun market.

The federal reserve is a private corporation that has us by the short hairs and has brought us nearly all of our financial woes since 1913. The international banksters were trying like crazy to institute a national bank since this nation's inception, and the proof is everywhere. Andrew Jackson's re-election slogan was "I killed the bank"

Google The Money Masters to watch the two part video on this

The troll is indeed quite incompetent and needs more edumacation

 

[billt]

Implying the presence of cheap credit created by the federal reserve did not distort the real estate market by increasing demand of homes, hence increasing the price. Likewise, the same argument for the cheap credit boom of the 20's, with the same culprit in the federal reserve.

Not even close no mind. It wasn't "cheap credit" that caused this. Mortgage rates are far cheaper today than they were at the peak of the housing boom.

<broken link removed>

http://www.hsh.com/natmo2006.html

In fact the loans these idiots sign on to were some of the most expensive ever created in mortgage history. Many were 100% interest only loans for the first 5 years. "Cheap credit" had nothing to do with it. The combined stupidity of the borrowers, along with the greed of wanting in on what they thought was a never ending rise in prices, put the entire housing market on the fast track to disaster with a train load full of idiots on board.

The stock market failed because of uncontrolled 5% margin buying. Again, "cheap credit", along with the government had nothing what so ever to do with it. In fact, The Securities & Exchange Commission wasn't even formed until June 6, 1934, almost 5 years after the crash. The Stock Exchange was wide open with little to no government regulation.

When the initial crash occurred, prices dropped beyond 5% faster than brokers could sell out their clients positions. This, much like the housing market, produced a decline in price faster than the market could absorb through sale. The end result was the same. People had stocks worth less than what they owed on them, just as "home owners" found they could not liquidate through sale fast enough to pay off their existing mortgage, because prices dropped faster than they could sell.

Today you cannot purchase stock with only 5% down unless you agree to set up a short sale account with a cash reserve. This allows your position to be automatically liquidated in a sharp decline without your knowledge if necessary, in order cover any potential losses. Just as you can no longer buy a house with zero down. Idiots caused the housing crash by over borrowing money they couldn't pay back, because they had nothing themselves personally invested. Most knew when they signed the terms they could not afford the payments beyond the 5 year limit on the ARM. They were planning they could liquidate through sale before that, or else refinance, and cash out with large amounts of equity. Just as the 5% margin buyers thought they could sell their stocks for big profits that never came. Only huge losses they couldn't pay.

The collapse of both markets was caused by idiots who had no money, only paper and big dreams that turned into nightmares. The government had nothing to do with either collapse, anymore than they did when the dot com boom went bust. All three were directly caused because of over inflated paper values that simply did not exist. Not government intervention.

The fact you want to blame the government because idiots will over react, and in fact run wild to artificial supply and demand within markets they themselves create, not the government, is ridiculous. Idiots are idiots regardless of what the government does, or doesn't do. Today you have these same morons lining up to pay $1,700.00+ an ounce for gold, because G. Gordon Liddy and Glen Beck are telling them what a great buy it is, and how the world is going to end in fifteen minutes.

Idiots are always separated from their money, which always seems to be borrowed, as both the stock market and housing market crash proved. Don't quit your day job to become a financial adviser anytime soon. Stick with b!tching, moaning, and blaming the government for everything. Your much better at it.

 

[billt]

The troll is indeed quite incompetent and needs more edumacation

 

[dmancornell]

Not even close no mind. It wasn't "cheap credit" that caused this. Mortgage rates are far cheaper today than they were at the peak of the housing boom.

BLAH BLAH BLAH A BUNCH OF HOT AIR AND INCORRECT CRAP

Cheap credit is a low interest rate, genius. Therefore your entire bandwidth-wasting post is garbage.

 

[billt]

Cheap credit is a low interest rate.

100% interest for 5 years isn't cheap. LEARN TO READ. Cheap money did not create the housing crash as you claim. Idiots did. Wake up!

 

[dmancornell]

100% interest for 5 years isn't cheap. LEARN TO READ. Cheap money did not create the housing crash as you claim. Idiots did. Wake up!

You're an idiot. It's cheap for the banks! That's the issue at hand, you're too dumb to even figure out what the problem is, never mind the solution.

 

[billt]

It's cheap for the banks! That's the issue at hand

Banks don't buy houses people do. If they are willing to pay 100% interest on a loan, what difference does it make how cheap it is or isn't for the banks? Since when are idiots borrowing money concerned how much the banks are making? Please, stop proving your total ignorance.

 

[dmancornell]

Banks don't buy houses people do. If they are willing to pay 100% interest on a loan, what difference does it make how cheap it is or isn't for the banks? Since when are idiots borrowing money concerned how much the banks are making? Please, stop proving your total ignorance.

You are flat out wrong claiming loans were actually more expensive during the 2000's bubble period. Looking at the same link that you posted (Historical Mortgage Rates), 30 year interest rates in the mid 2000's were lower than they had ever been in the past 20 year period. Therefore, the cost of loans in the 2000's were lower than they had ever been at the time. And that is possible because the government is providing cheap credit to the banks. See the connection there, dummy?

You are right about one thing, if people are willing to pay some amount for a property, then they should buy it. But the issue at hand is government interference of the real estate market by lowering the price of credit in spite of the ongoing boom, which exacerbated the bubble. Your continued insistence that the biggest player in the market (the government via freddie/fannie and the federal reserve) can have no effect on said market is blatantly absurd.

Also, not going to waste time on this off-topic tangent any more, since your idiocy has been proven over and over again for all to see.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Apparently unable to sense serious sarcasm as well.. I say less troll, more a complete and ignorant self righteous boob

http://www.joannejacobs.com/2010/06/too-stupid-to-know-theyre-stupid/

 

[billt]

You are flat out wrong claiming loans were actually more expensive during the 2000's bubble period. 30 year interest rates in the mid 2000's were lower than they had ever been in the past 20 year period. Therefore, the cost of loans in the 2000's were lower than they had ever been at the time.

There is no connection. Only in your feeble, stupid mind. You're not out in left field, you're not even in the parking lot of the ball park. Look no mind, the loans were insanely expensive because most all of them were in fact 5 year A.R.M. mortgages, not 30 year fixed rate loans. These loans were interest only loans for the first 5 years, which paid NOTHING toward the principal, only interest to the LENDER. You can't get any more expensive than 100% interest. Get the connection dummy? These idiots were not taking out 30 year fixed rate loans because they never could have afforded the payments. Are you getting it now?

Your continued insistence that the biggest player in the market (the government via freddie/fannie and the federal reserve) can have no effect on said market is blatantly absurd.

Again, only in your feeble, stupid mind. All Freddie and Fannie did was guarantee the loans, much like they always have, including now. They did not control interest rates. If cheap money to the banks, the borrowers, or anyone else for that matter, spurred the housing boom like you so insinuate it did, we would be in the biggest real estate boom of the century right now. We're not, and interest rates have never been lower, nor home prices cheaper. The difference now is idiots can't borrow because banks have gone back to sensible lending practices, and won't loan to these penniless morons who walked into these banks with nothing but a smile and visions of grandeur. They now want 20% down with good credit.

This nonsense that they "put pressure" on banks to loan to idiots had no bearing because the banks were willing to loan to them anyway, simply because they were getting 100% interest for the first 5 years. They were sucked into the belief they couldn't lose as well. You're the one who is all over the map on this because your dumber than a stump, and are so busy trying to blame the government, you would know what was actually going on if it bit you in the a$$. This silly attempt of yours to pass off your own total ignorance on this matter is apparent. All one has to do is read your posts. You're so all over the map, you don't know if your coming or going.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

A legend in his own mind

 

[Toxic6]

what was the original point of the thread, because the fact that it has meandered to it's current path is a testament to the site mods in it self, let alone the fact that those arguing have gone to complementing themselves. It is a well known fact that our government has too much power.....it is a too little known fact as to how easy that problem should be to fix.

Felons and firearms.....i think was meant to mean someone who worked within a pre-decided system of crime and punishment. Criminal intent with firearms will never be stopped, as those who seek power thorough any means will use any means, whether legal or illegal, and whether the power is intended or perceived. You WILL NOT stop those bent on ill intent, whether they be from an underground source or through your own government power structure. You can only guide those subject to a perceived rule or leader class.......hopefully in the path of light but it goes both ways and in between.

man.....does drinking whiskey mean i can't own guns. Good thing they all where lost in a tragic boating accident (I am such a boating newb.....really sucks that I thought i could go shooting at sea).

edit- I am wishing I wouldn't have even typed this last night, and I really wasn't trying to jump in on your guy's argument or attack anyone - by all means go back to trolling away lol. I would delete my post but unfortunately, I feel that once you say something you should own up to - even if it makes you look like a jackass lol.

 

[Misterbill]

In theroy, felons should not be barred from owning guns. I feel very strongly in this direction. Once you've sered your entire sentence you should have a clean slate as far as anone but the courts and the cops know in case you re-offend.

BUT...

In reality, we give slaps on the wrist to all but the most serious of felonies. Hell, I had someone involved in the justice system tell me about a "victory" he had in getting a guy four years for an armed robbery and assault 3 after more than 8 felonies as a juvenile, a couple of which were violent. That's typical. The guy stuck a knife out at someone and took his stuff. To me, you shouldn't even be getting considered for a possible release for that crime in less than ten years. A SECOND violent felony? Throw away the key.

Now the problem is that we call felonies felonies, with no regard to anything else. Posession of one ounce and one gram of pot? FELON. Posession of one gram of cocaine in most places? felon. Embezzled $3000? felon.

How are any of the above people in any way dangerous? What difference would it make if they had LEGAL guns? (Seeing as we all know they can have illegal guns and probably never get caught).

I could support the no felons with guns if it were amended to violent felons. But I would much more support a reform of the justice system that treated predators like predators and fairly harmless pains in the asses like misdemeanants with only the punishment being different based on the crime.

Having a two-tiered set of citizenship in a country with more people behind bars than any other country in the world is a recipe for pointless injustice and cruelty.