Felons and Firearms

[sheepdip]

and then there is the even stiffer penalty of losing your voting rights. now if that isnt enough to deter crime we are all doomed.

 

[derrickrf]

We already know that the death penalty is flawed and innocent men have been murdered by the state, and that somewhere above 60 have been completely proven innocent and released from prison and some from death row.
A study was done and when asking murderers if they "considered the death penalty" before committing there act? The reply was a resounding no!

 

[billt]

A study was done and when asking murderers if they "considered the death penalty" before committing there act? The reply was a resounding no!

It doesn't change the fact they'll have to deal with it after. Regardless if they were for it or not.

 

[rur862]

It doesn't change the fact they'll have to deal with it after. Regardless if they were for it or not.

The whole idea behind the death penalty is to prevent crime, if perpetrators do not consider it before committing the act then it is worthless.

If we don't trust the government to control who can possess firearms, why do we trust them with the power to execute people?

 

[eganx]

True. It also depends on the crime. If you commit a white collar felony you stand a much better chance of getting your gun rights back than if it is a felony that was committed involving the use of a firearm.

If you were convicted of a felony involving a firearm, assault, or DV you will permanently loose your A2 rights. That goes for all A class felonies too. C class felonies are a 5 year wait and B class are 10. That is after your released from parole or probation and have not gotten in any more legal trouble. This is all for WA state though

 

[billt]

The whole idea behind the death penalty is to prevent crime, if perpetrators do not consider it before committing the act then it is worthless.

Only in your line of thinking. I much prefer the Ted Nugent school of thought. I like DEAD offenders!

 

[billt]

If you were convicted of a felony involving a firearm, assault, or DV you will permanently loose your A2 rights. That goes for all A class felonies too. C class felonies are a 5 year wait and B class are 10. That is after your released from parole or probation and have not gotten in any more legal trouble. This is all for WA state though

Sounds good to me.

 

[unklekippy]

I'm a little confused about this from the get go. Since when is an ex-con, recently put on the street, deemed "paid in full" on his debts for his crimes? Do we no longer have parole or probation? Since the debt is paid, what right does the judicial system have to even bring up a prior record? By the same token, after an 8 year stint in prison, I'm sure you wouldn't mind a "reformed" child molester hanging out at your 7 year olds school because, after all, his debt was repaid the instant his sentence was complete. There are ways to get your rights back if you want to jump through hoops. And if you burned that bridge, then pissed all over the ashes, so be it. Another great effect of the Nanny State. You can sneak in the country and steal funding, you can be a sexual deviant or you can be just released from prison and in all those cases, not only should I pay 30% tax to pay for it all, I should owe you an apology for my "intolerance".

 

[mkwerx]

I'm a little confused about this from the get go. Since when is an ex-con, recently put on the street, deemed "paid in full" on his debts for his crimes? Do we no longer have parole or probation? Since the debt is paid, what right does the judicial system have to even bring up a prior record? By the same token, after an 8 year stint in prison, I'm sure you wouldn't mind a "reformed" child molester hanging out at your 7 year olds school because, after all, his debt was repaid the instant his sentence was complete. There are ways to get your rights back if you want to jump through hoops. And if you burned that bridge, then pissed all over the ashes, so be it. Another great effect of the Nanny State. You can sneak in the country and steal funding, you can be a sexual deviant or you can be just released from prison and in all those cases, not only should I pay 30% tax to pay for it all, I should owe you an apology for my "intolerance".

Did you read the rest of the thread? How about the points that I, and others have raised? If the offender is such a danger to society - *why are they on the street?* That's a problem with the current system. Arbitrary and sometimes meaningless sentences. By the same token - law makers make laws. They rarely get rid of old ones. They are always adding to the code and changing it to make more and more things crimes - including felony crimes. And the sex offender label has been expanded over time. A 17 year old who nailed his 16 year old girlfriend, who's parents then find out and force statutory rape charges - is now a sex offender. Does that make sense? Should the horny kid be labelled a sexual predator, loose his voting rights, his 2A rights, and wear the same stigma on his name as a serial rapist?

Yes, there is still parole and probation - post release supervision and whatnot. However, when a person is done with that system, their debt to society should have been repaid for the crime they were convicted of. If not - why were they released too early? What is an appropriate length of probation for something like securities fraud, insider trading, or embezzlement (crimes which I'm sure pencil pushers deem 'dangerous' but don't make someone a violent thug - and in my opinion, shouldn't have *any* jail time associated with it, since housing these people takes up prison space that could be used to house people convicted of more serious crimes.) I go back to my idea of forced work-release type probation or parole - you work until the monetary debt is repaid. If you want the sentence completed - you repay the system faster.

 

[unklekippy]

I did take in the rest of the thread. There are certain rights "signed away" upon a plea deal that most criminals sign. Your example of the 17 year old boy and 16 year old girl could be presented better. The fact of the matter is that we have judges for just such occassions. You see, their job is to weigh all of the facts after the jury has determined innocence/guilt and produce a "judgement". A sentence that relates(in theory) to the crime. At what point is a child molester ready to be employed by a daycare center? At what point is a criminal ready to have his/her gun rights restored? The steps are in place to get your rights back if you do not cross certain lines and jump through th hoops. I want to be clear, I do not believe that our rights should be stripped so easily. However, these are case by case studies and again that is why we have judges and not simply black and white standards(The flaw of Measure 11 here in Oregon). Please remember, for every minor criminal that gets his rights back for all the right reasons, the liberal media will find 100 that got their rights back and promptly committed a crime with a legal gun. I do honestly understand the heart of your argument and I do honestly know some felons that I would trust completely with firearms. Finally, while the horny kid shouldn't be scarred for life over his 16 year old girlfriend, it is the responsibility of the citizen to understand the laws of the land. Respectfully, Kip.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

We already know that the death penalty is flawed and innocent men have been murdered by the state, and that somewhere above 60 have been completely proven innocent and released from prison and some from death row.
A study was done and when asking murderers if they "considered the death penalty" before committing there act? The reply was a resounding no!

The real murderers will never continue their career after the death penalty is applied.. that is enough for me. Nothing here is perfect

 

[Blitzkrieg]

The whole idea behind the death penalty is to prevent crime, if perpetrators do not consider it before committing the act then it is worthless.

If we don't trust the government to control who can possess firearms, why do we trust them with the power to execute people?

Because one is a Constitutional right they cannot have power over according to the 2nd while the other is a time honored way to eliminate the worst bad actors from our society

 

[jimwsea]

Seems like everything is a felony these days, and if not is somehow construed as a form of domestic violence. I can't believe no one has addressed the fact that in most cases, people do not even have to be convicted of something to lose their rights - just charged with. Charged with, found innocent, and then still have to go through the process to have things stricken from their record to clear their name. I am going off the assumption that this state is the same as others I have lived in, apologies if I am wrong.....I'm no lawyer nor do I play one on t.v. lol

Like this little kid???
Hercules Family Battles Sex Assault Claim Against 6-Year-Old « CBS San Francisco

 

[Toxic6]

Like this little kid???
Hercules Family Battles Sex Assault Claim Against 6-Year-Old « CBS San Francisco

that's messed up.

 

[jjackffrost]

you have some state making traffic crimes felony's just so you can not have guns and your right are restricted. here in Oregon if you get busted for anything they will charge you for everything they can think of. Jaywalking becomes attempted killing yourself and attempted homicide if a car swerves misses you.
It is crazy. remember most laws are not there to protect you, they are there to control you.
Criminals do not follow the laws so who are the writing them for.

 

[mkwerx]

Like this little kid???
Hercules Family Battles Sex Assault Claim Against 6-Year-Old « CBS San Francisco

Obviously the folks running that school are horribly broken, incapable of logical reasoning. It's also clear that some folks will try to make *anything* a crime, and turn even our young children into criminals by twisting anything they can into a crime.

 

[rur862]

Because one is a Constitutional right they cannot have power over according to the 2nd while the other is a time honored way to eliminate the worst bad actors from our society

Again, its not that I have anything against the death penalty used to execute criminals (I do), it's that I believe a government with the ability to execute its own citizens is more dangerous than criminals.

 

[billt]

Again, its not that I have anything against the death penalty used to execute criminals (I do), it's that I believe a government with the ability to execute its own citizens is more dangerous than criminals.

I would like to see some reliable statistics that back that claim up.

 

[Asp]

I would like to see some reliable statistics that back that claim up.

Stalin and the then Commie Russians.
Just one example, Katyn massacre

 

[billt]

Stalin and the then Commie Russians.
Just one example, Katyn massacre

And just when do you predict that will be happening here, under our present government?