Failed cartridges...

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by CountryGent, May 14, 2018 at 7:34 PM.

  1. CountryGent

    CountryGent
    Southern Oregon
    Moderator Staff Member Platinum Supporter Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    4,202
    Likes Received:
    11,921
    Today I stopped by a small sporting goods store that has been around since, according to the wife of the owner, 1946. I remember going there as a youth for fishing supplies, and with my father and older brother for firearm-related items back in the 1980s. My reason for visiting was largely nostalgia, and also for .44 Special ammo, but I mainly wanted to see the old place.

    Anyway, whilst there, I spied not one, but two boxes of .307 Winchester ammunition on the shelf. No, that isn't a type-o, such a cartridge exists. I believe it is still factory loaded, but it never caught on. I've read online that it is popular in Spain because it has .308-like ballistics, but isn't a "military caliber", which is prohibito in that country.

    During the drive down the 101 I was thinking of various failed cartridges in the modern era. There are certainly old cartridges, good and bad, that have faded away, but I'm thinking of relatively modern (post-war) introductions.

    I can think of a number, but I thought I'd toss it out there for discussion: what "new" cartridges do you recall making a splash and then going away? Were they good, bad, or meh? Why do you think they failed?
     
  2. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
    Everson, Wa.
    Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,251
    Likes Received:
    34,467
    .257 Roberts and .250-3000 Savage come to mind.
    ( not really post -war..but modern to a black powder shooter...:D )
    Both were very popular in the day , got lots of press and actually worked well....but now just seem to have faded away...at least around here.

    That could be something to think about...
    Some cartridges may have been more popular at a "regional" level as opposed to popular at a "national" level...
    Andy
     
    Tully Mars, USMC-03, KKG and 4 others like this.
  3. slimer13

    slimer13
    Deer Park
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    6,674
    .40;)
     
  4. djharteloo

    djharteloo
    Camas Washington
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    470
    The WSM family of cartridges come to mind. Solid concept and idea, not that big of an improvement over cheaper, existing cartridges that are easier to reload.
     
    Tully Mars, nwwoodsman, wired and 2 others like this.
  5. Goosebrown

    Goosebrown
    Oregon
    Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer

    Messages:
    3,334
    Likes Received:
    7,993
    220 swift replaced by 22-250
     
  6. awshoot

    awshoot
    Bellingham
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    567
    Likes Received:
    1,133
    .40 S&W? Whenever I'm picking up my .40 brass, I usually end up with more than I started with. :D
     
  7. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
    Warshington
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    15,125
    There are some failed cartridges that are still “common”.

    6mm Remington/.244 Remington: longer case than .243 Winchester but twisted too slow at its inception.

    6.5 Remington Magnum: A short action that required a magnum bolt face that came out in one of the ugliest guns of all time without enough barrel to take advantage of it...the Remington Model 600.

    .264 Winchester Magnum: Marketed as a predator/antelope/deer cartridge. Chambered in M70s with 22 inch barrels. People with chronographs realized it was a loud/expensive .270. By the time Winchester made a 26 inch barreled rifle and realized it was more than a coyote gun, the 7mm Remington Magnum came out using the same case and 1/2 mm bigger bullet. BUT, it was a marketing triumph with the “hits hard like a 30-06, shoots flat like a 270” shtick.

    .284 Winchester: You have to neck the suck out of this cartridge. The 6mm-284, 25-284, and 6.5-284 were much more popular as wildcats. Then there is that rebated rim...

    All the Short Action Ultra Magnums: Sure, they feed better than the WSMs, but the WSMs actually achieved magnum level velocities.

    All the WSSMs: WTF. These weren’t any faster and cycled like crap.

    7mm STW: It came out hot and gunsmiths were chambering barrels for it...and then it wasn’t as fast as advertised without blowing primers and belts became a bad thing all of the sudden.

    7mm Ultra Magnum: Too expensive to feed with factory ammo, too overbore and toasted barrels. More rebated rim.

    7mm and 325 WSM: The 7mm WSM is arguably the best WSM performance-wise but would benefit from .25 more magazine space. The 325 WSM is an 8mm and 8mms dont sell in the US compared to 338s.

    8mm Remington Magnum: Probably the best NA big game cartridge of all time that no one could shoot well because it kicked so hard. That and its an 8mm.

    338 Remington Ultra Magnum: Why did they cut the case down? The 338 Edge should have been the 338 RUM.
     
  8. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
    Warshington
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    15,125
    At least its American and doesn’t use that metric schit. The 10mm is the roundabout of cartridges. Just another thing trying to be European by using that metric garbage.
     
  9. Reno911

    Reno911
    Hillsboro
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer 2017 Volunteer 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    3,242
    Likes Received:
    5,654
    .17 HM2
     
  10. Reno911

    Reno911
    Hillsboro
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer 2017 Volunteer 2018 Volunteer

    Messages:
    3,242
    Likes Received:
    5,654
    .17 wsm, in time.
     
    Alexx1401 and CountryGent like this.
  11. Kruejl

    Kruejl
    Hillsboro
    Moderator of the Coriolis effect Staff Member Lifetime Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    7,520
    Likes Received:
    22,260
    .357 Sig
    .40 S&W (not gone but should be :D).
    5.7 (what's are they trying to prove? :D).
     
    Tully Mars, mkwerx, Ura-Ki and 2 others like this.
  12. Lilhigbee

    Lilhigbee
    SE Portland
    Visit Target550.com Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    1,471
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    .256 Win. Mag. Far more guns promised in that caliber than the four that were actually made. It should have been a dandy little cartridge for target shooting and small game. The only factory loadings for it were with 60 gr. bullets and in my experience they offer mediocre to poor accuracy. Hardly a redeeming feature for a target round. Handloading 75 gr. bullets improves accuracy quite a bit but I don't think any caliber will survive without at least one good factory loading.
     
    orygun, AndyinEverson and No_Regerts like this.
  13. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
    Warshington
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    15,125
    I’ll throw 45 GAP in there too.
     
  14. Kruejl

    Kruejl
    Hillsboro
    Moderator of the Coriolis effect Staff Member Lifetime Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    7,520
    Likes Received:
    22,260
    Good point.
     
  15. slimer13

    slimer13
    Deer Park
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,733
    Likes Received:
    6,674
    Have you ever noticed that on the Demolition Ranch vids, the 5.7 is actually really bad at penetration despite all of the BS marketing?
     
    coyotecaller, Ura-Ki, Kruejl and 2 others like this.
  16. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
    Warshington
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    15,125
    Ill throw in 30 TC and 308 Marlin in there too. 7-30 Waters was kind of a waste of time.

    I’ll go out on a bit of a limb here:

    260 Remington: The perfect example of why the 2.85 inch standard magazine of a short action should be stretched to 3.
     
    coyotecaller and Ura-Ki like this.
  17. Kruejl

    Kruejl
    Hillsboro
    Moderator of the Coriolis effect Staff Member Lifetime Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    7,520
    Likes Received:
    22,260
    Um, yeah! I watch all Matt's vids, sport his merch here and there and yeah the 5.7 is lame for penetration!
     
    mkwerx and Ura-Ki like this.
  18. Ura-Ki

    Ura-Ki
    Doin Patriot Stuff
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,076
    Likes Received:
    22,646
    .30 Remington comes to mind, though its a pre war offering, it just didn't catch on, and there were far better offerings for a lot less money. .35 Remington, a good idea that never got properly marketed or chambered in more suitable rifles, and its way down on power in factory loadings. .357 SIG, a sort of good idea that just didn't catch on like they thought, and it was way to expensive for many shooters, and the savvy knew there were better options! 5.7MM combined rifle and pistol, a great idea that has never been supported in the ammo industry, and the FN stuff is far too expensive and limited in its 2 civilian restricted offerings.
     
    Tully Mars likes this.
  19. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
    Warshington
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    4,603
    Likes Received:
    15,125
    .257 Roberts often needs a long action where you could easily have a 25-06 instead. Or, cram it in a short action where the 243 fits more easily and has higher BC bullets. Again, the 243 easily out paces a 250-3000.
     
    Ura-Ki likes this.
  20. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
    Everson, Wa.
    Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,251
    Likes Received:
    34,467
    Yeah but the name is cooler...plus Ned Roberts designed it and he was a black powder guy at heart and in his soul....:D
    Andy
     
    Tully Mars, Tom Louis, joken and 2 others like this.

Share This Page