Expanding case to load non-boat tail rifle pills?

[Goodknight]

As long as I have access to the Greatest minds in reloading here is my question.
When reloading (non boat tail) pills specifically .308 and .311 how do you get them positioned to go straight into the sized neck? With straight wall we expand...is there a rifle cartridge expanding step I'm not aware of?

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[4x401]

The decaping stem in the sizing die has a button just above the decaping pin that expands the neck on the upstroke.

Seating flat base bullets can be tricky. A good inside chamfer of the neck will help alot, especially if you use a VLD taper chamfering tool.

And alot of newer rifle cartridge seating dies incorporate a sliding sleeve (like high end competition seating dies) that hold the case and bullet in alignment on the upstroke.

 

[RVTECH]

is there a rifle cartridge expanding step I'm not aware of?

You either need to flare the case neck OR chamfer with the RCBS deburring tool AND carefully set the bullet in as vertical as you can and seat carefully.

I do this with flat base bullet I use in .30-30 loading (.30 carbine bullets) and do not have a problem.

And alot of newer rifle cartridge seating dies incorporate a sliding sleeve

Ditto this however and I would never buy any rifle dies in the future without this. I have one set now (.223) and it works very well.

 

[Goodknight]

I use primarily RCBS and a few Lee die sets. In my experience (limited) that button does not over size the neck it in fact allows for tension on the projectile right???

 

[RVTECH]

it in fact allows for tension on the projectile right??

Yes and like I said above;
You either need to flare the case neck OR chamfer with the RCBS deburring tool AND carefully set the bullet in as vertical as you can and seat carefully.

I made a flaring tool to flare .30-30 case necks to seat lead bullets as flaring is necessary to properly seat them.

 

[DizzyJ]

I think Lyman has an "M" die IIRC which can help immensely with this issue.

Heavy chamfer (as mentioned)

Bullet seating die with a sleeve (my go to is the Forster competition bullet seating die).

As mentioned, it's a lot more critical to place the bullet squarely on the case mouth.

I had to deal with this when I first started loading 34gr FBHPs for the .223

 

[Goodknight]

Yes I'm aware of the inside chamfer. I like to keep this as minimal as possible. Would this Lee die serve this purpose?

Lee Precision, Inc.. Universal Case Expanding Die

Lee Universal Flaring Die gently flares the case mouth to accept cast bullets without shaving. Includes neck plugs for .22 cal through .45 cal

leeprecision.com

 

[Pepe-lepew]

I load lots of 30 cal flat base. Never needed anything different or had issues. I wouldn't want to bell the cases. Belling sometimes doesn't help with holding the bullet upright before seating, it would require an extra step of crimping and I don't want to over work the case mouth.

I do use a 30 carbine expander/belling insert in a longer die body for loading lead bullets in 30-30 or 30/06. That is necessary to prevent shaving lead off the bullet.

 

[DizzyJ]

Yes I'm aware of the inside chamfer. I like to keep this as minimal as possible. Would this Lee die serve this purpose?

Lee Precision, Inc.. Universal Case Expanding Die

Lee Universal Flaring Die gently flares the case mouth to accept cast bullets without shaving. Includes neck plugs for .22 cal through .45 cal

leeprecision.com

View attachment 1104783

You could try that as well. Just make sure to close the mouth back up after seating the bullet.

 

[Goodknight]

I load lots of 30 cal flat base. Never needed anything different or had issues. I wouldn't want to bell the cases. Belling sometimes doesn't help with holding the bullet upright before seating, it would require an extra step of crimping and I don't want to over work the case mouth.

I do use a 30 carbine expander/belling insert in a longer die body for loading lead bullets in 30-30 or 30/06. That is necessary to prevent shaving lead off the bullet.

Yes, the Lee expander pinned above is recommended for cast projectiles.
Ok it sounds like I'm doing it correctly, maybe a bit more chamfer.

 

[RVTECH]

Just make sure to close the mouth back up after seating the bullet.

Good point and the Lee FCD (collet style) does this perfectly.

 

[WillametteWill]

+1 to the "competition" style seating dies with the sleave over the bullet. I find this really helps with FB bullets. Got tired of 4 working then the next one is a pita to get straight.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

Once a bullet enters the die, it gets aligned before seating, wether it has a floating seater or not. You only need to get it into the die.
Depending on the bullet base edge, any chamfer or belling may not be good enough to reliably hold the bullet upright. Sometimes you just have to be careful to ensure the bullet starts into the die opening. I have certain pistol bullets that do not stay in placed no matter how much or how little belling there is.

 

[DizzyJ]

Once a bullet enters the die, it gets aligned before seating, wether it has a floating seater or not. You only need to get it into the die.
Depending on the bullet base edge, any chamfer or belling may not be good enough to reliably hold the bullet upright. Sometimes you just have to be careful to ensure the bullet starts into the die opening. I have certain pistol bullets that do not stay in placed no matter how much or how little belling there is.

The degree of alignment is what is up for debate.

I've shaved off more copper rings than I care to admit. The sleeved seating dies help immensely with this.

 

[JustShoot]

As long as I have access to the Greatest minds in reloading here is my question.
When reloading (non boat tail) pills specifically .308 and .311 how do you get them positioned to go straight into the sized neck? With straight wall we expand...is there a rifle cartridge expanding step I'm not aware of?

Flat-Base and with a inside mouth Chamfer of the Neck , there nothing more you need ....BUT

Is it new Brass ?? .. or , If you reloading fired Brass . having problems seating Flat-base with stiff seat, and uneven alignment .
People always disregard the fact that Brass Necks Get Brittle and less Flexible ' No Stretch ' with X-amount firings . You need to Anneal and then keep on reloading your brass until your primer pockets are blown.
.

 

[Goodknight]

Flat-Base and with a inside mouth Chamfer of the Neck , there nothing more you need ....BUT

Is it new Brass ?? .. or , If you reloading fired Brass . having problems seating Flat-base with stiff seat, and uneven alignment .
People always disregard the fact that Brass Necks Get Brittle and less Flexible ' No Stretch ' with X-amount firings . You need to Anneal and then keep on reloading your brass until your primer pockets are blown.
.

Both new (Starline) and used brass.

 

[JustShoot]

Both new (Starline) and used brass.

Then Practice, makes perfect .
.

 

[aasbra]

When loading 300 BLK subsonic, I have used a hi tek coated, flat base 220 grain bullet. After initially having difficulty seating these bullets in sized or new cases, I use the Lee universal expanding die you linked to slightly flare the case mouth. After seating with my Forster seating die (with the floating chamber), I use the Lee FCD to remove the slight bell/flare. This process has worked well for me in this application with coated lead, flat base bullets that are probably on the larger diameter for the expander on the sizer die that were difficult to seat without shaving the coating/lead on a sized case.

 

[Goodknight]

When loading 300 BLK subsonic, I have used a hi tek coated, flat base 220 grain bullet. After initially having difficulty seating these bullets in sized or new cases, I use the Lee universal expanding die you linked to slightly flare the case mouth. After seating with my Forster seating die (with the floating chamber), I use the Lee FCD to remove the slight bell/flare. This process has worked well for me in this application with coated lead, flat base bullets that are probably on the larger diameter for the expander on the sizer die that were difficult to seat without shaving the coating/lead on a sized case.

One day I'll be as smart as you all!

 

[Goodknight]

The degree of alignment is what is up for debate.

I've shaved off more copper rings than I care to admit. The sleeved seating dies help immensely with this.

What is cost difference between RCBS and said sleeved dies? For most of us the bucket has a bottom.