404 BJ express load data

[JRuby]

I traded into a pretty rifle chambered in 404 BJ express - the bullet diameter is .411. I have been looking for any load data I can find on it, some came with the ammo - the problem is that the loads are worked up for IMR 4320. IMR 4320 was discontinued a few years go. Best I can tell the 404 BJ Express was created back in the late 50's since it uses resized 458 win mag or cut down 375H&H. The rifle is a 1951 FN mauser. The bore diameter of the 416 Taylor is only .005 difference in size. I am wondering if it would be ok to use the loading data from the 416 Taylor for this effort. The cases dimensions for the taylor and mine are almost identical except for the bullet diameter. I simply need a starting point. The cartridge is not even in the book "Cartridges of the world" Any thoughts or info would be greatly appreciated.

Read More

 

[JRuby]

Cartridge on the left is a 375h&h , middle is a 404 BJ Express, cartridge on right is a 280 remington

 

[bionic knees]

thought I was on to something, but you have to subscribe

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.404 B-J Express (Barnes Johnson) (P.O. Ackley Data)

Warning! Notes: Standard twist: 16". This .404 B-J Express cartridge is the same as the .358 B-J Express except necked for the tough .411 Barnes bullets. It is suitable for the largest game. (Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders/Vol. 1 - P.O. Ackley, 1962) NOTE: USE THIS DATA WITH EXTREME CAUTION

Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.

Wt.	Bullet	Powder Manufacturer	Powder	Charge	Velocity (FPS)
250		IMR	IMR-4198	SUBSCRIBE	3017
Remarks:
300		IMR	IMR-4320	SUBSCRIBE	2810
Remarks:
400		IMR	IMR-4064	SUBSCRIBE	2425
Remarks:

 

[JRuby]

I found this, hope it helps.

.404 B-J Express (Barnes Johnson) (P.O. Ackley Data)

View attachment 1813676

Warning! Notes: Standard twist: 16". This .404 B-J Express cartridge is the same as the .358 B-J Express except necked for the tough .411 Barnes bullets. It is suitable for the largest game. (Handbook for Shooters & Reloaders/Vol. 1 - P.O. Ackley, 1962) NOTE: USE THIS DATA WITH EXTREME CAUTION

Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data.

Wt.	Bullet	Powder Manufacturer	Powder	Charge	Velocity (FPS)
250		IMR	IMR-4198	SUBSCRIBE	3017
Remarks:
300		IMR	IMR-4320	SUBSCRIBE	2810
Remarks:
400		IMR	IMR-4064	SUBSCRIBE	2425
Remarks:

thank you i will purchase access on pay day.

 

[bionic knees]

I found this on 24hour campfire.

404 B-J #1 300 Barnes 85 gr/IMR 4320 2810 ft/sec;
404 B-J #1 400 Barnes 74 gr/IMR 4064 2425 ft/sec;
404 B-J #2 300 Barnes 85 gr/IMR 4320 2816 ft/sec;
404 B-J #2 350 Barnes 78 gr/IMR 4064 2530 ft/sec;
404 B-J #2 400 Barnes 73 gr/IMR 4064 2410 ft/sec.

 

[JRuby]

Most of the stuff in Google I have read several times. I have also read most of what I can find on the 416 Taylor. Just doesnt seem to be much on the 404 B-J Express. This must not have been a very popular chambering based on the limited information avaikable.

 

[bionic knees]

Most of the stuff in Google I have read several times. I have also read most of what I can find on the 416 Taylor. Just doesnt seem to be much on the 404 B-J Express. This must not have been a very popular chambering based on the limited information avaikable.

ya, never heard of it before.

 

[P7M13]

I would guess by the name, it's a Bob Jourdan wildcat.
6 lbs of 4320 were available in the Classifieds a few days ago: https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/misc-powder-30-a-pound.472006/#post-3777175

Some search links:

404 B-J Express

No, really. It's an actual wildcat caliber... Someone's grandfather had this left over from way long ago – something he started and never finished! I’m not sure if it is a .404 BJ Express but I ordered some Cerrosafe and we’ll see what it measures. Never even been drilled and tapped but you...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Very interesting article by Jourdan on LRH:

Pressures, Case Strength and Back Thrust

Pressures, Case Strength and Back Thrust By Bob Jourdan ©Copyright 2010, Precision Shooting Magazine All handloading manuals take safety very seriously. They cover most of the hazardous points in reloading ammunition in an effort to keep a...

www.longrangehunting.com

404 Rimless Nitro load data, drop 20% and work up:

Shooter's Reference Load Data for .404 Rimless Nitro Express

shootersreference.com

 

[orygun]

ya, never heard of it before.

Me, either.

 

[solv3nt]

ya, never heard of it before.

Never heard of the BJ Express? Found the married guy.

 

[JRuby]

I would guess by the name, it's a Bob Jourdan wildcat.
6 lbs of 4320 were available in the Classifieds a few days ago: https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/misc-powder-30-a-pound.472006/#post-3777175

Some search links:

404 B-J Express

No, really. It's an actual wildcat caliber... Someone's grandfather had this left over from way long ago – something he started and never finished! I’m not sure if it is a .404 BJ Express but I ordered some Cerrosafe and we’ll see what it measures. Never even been drilled and tapped but you...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Very interesting article by Jourdan on LRH:

Pressures, Case Strength and Back Thrust

Pressures, Case Strength and Back Thrust By Bob Jourdan ©Copyright 2010, Precision Shooting Magazine All handloading manuals take safety very seriously. They cover most of the hazardous points in reloading ammunition in an effort to keep a...

www.longrangehunting.com

404 Rimless Nitro load data, drop 20% and work up:

Shooter's Reference Load Data for .404 Rimless Nitro Express

shootersreference.com

It is actually "Barnes and Johnson" like Frank Barnes of Barnes bullets.

 

[P7M13]

It is actually "Barnes and Johnson" like Frank Barnes of Barnes bullets.

Yep, saw that in the process but didn't bother correcting
The machinist forum link may be of interest

 

[JRuby]

I have read everything I could find online. Was hoping someone had some experience with it. I am going to use 416 Taylor medium pressure loads to start with. I do not see .005 diameter making a difference. Now to figure out how to shoot lead gas checked bullets for fire forming bras. One thing i love about firearms and reloading is how much there is to learn.

 

[P7M13]

I have read everything I could find online. Was hoping someone had some experience with it. I am going to use 416 Taylor medium pressure loads to start with. I do not see .005 diameter making a difference. Now to figure out how to shoot lead gas checked bullets for fire forming bras. One thing i love about firearms and reloading is how much there is to learn.

With the 0.005" diameter increase, your chamber pressure may rise, but, because you're loading for less boolits, I wouldn't worry about it.
Please update on how it goes.

 

[JRuby]

With the 0.005" diameter increase, your chamber pressure may rise, but, because you're loading for less boolits, I wouldn't worry about it.
Please update on how it goes.

I certainly will report back. Part of my education in firearms.

 

[oremike]

You might be able to get information via Barnes bullets since it was invented by and made for them.

 

[Mikej]

Never heard of the BJ Express? Found the married guy.

Sooo many possibilities.

 

[JRuby]

I called Barnes bullets. They had no knowledge of the 404 BJ Express or the vintage Barnes bullets. I am certain someone at Barnes knows something the problem is getting a hold of them. Maybe I did not ask the right questions.

 

[orygun]

I called Barnes bullets. They had no knowledge of the 404 BJ Express or the vintage Barnes bullets. I am certain someone at Barnes knows something the problem is getting a hold of them. Maybe I did not ask the right questions.

There was a change in ownership of Barnes Bullets many years ago.
Fred Barnes sold the company to the Brooks in 1974 and it looks like the Brooks sold the company two years ago to a corp "Claris".
Even if you talked to an employee from the Brooks days the 404BJ very well could have come from the Fred days and that info went with him.
There lies the problem with a lot of trades these days. We're losing the old guys that did this stuff. Presently almost everything that's done is documented and on the internet, but a lot of what happened early to mid last century is only found in obscure correspondence.

 

[P7M13]

...
There lies the problem with a lot of trades these days. We're losing the old guys that did this stuff. Presently almost everything that's done is documented and on the internet, but a lot of what happened early to mid last century is only found in obscure correspondence.

So true. I spent half a day, 1:1 in the company of the scientist who lead the team that developed multiprocessor capability at Intel.
He also developed a communication protocol aspect that I was trying to port to a different processor. It had long been implemented in silicon.
When I asked him where I could find documentation on that protocol, he said, with a thick, German accent, "it would only have been on my yellow notepads, and those are likely long gone." He then proceeded to explain it to me.