Emergency Radios

[OutlawHoss]

Certainly - having someone listening much of the time is recommended. An SDR (Software Defined Radio) is recommended also. You plug it into your USB port on a laptop and program it to scan the frequencies and modes you want to keep track of. For listening this would be a good inexpensive way to cover a lot of bandwidth.

That said, I have only read about them and I don't have one yet, so I wouldn't mind hearing from others who have some experience in that area.

An SDR requiring a computer (or maybe a smartphone?) is not bad - a decent solar panel to charge the laptop battery (or a separate lithium ion battery) is quite doable - my laptop only uses 25 watts at most - less than many LED lightbulbs.

I have dipped into the SDR, and while one can make it work, I don't consider it a robust system. I'm not computer illiterate, but it takes some wrangling to get things set up, which isn't great for a newbie (for example, of the SDR software that I could find, the scanning feature was not native but a plug-in and not an easy one at that, requiring altering and inserting scripts). As well, a computer, a dongle, and a base style discone antenna just don't go into the field well or make for easy emcomm set up and mobility. If you want a scanner, than buy a scanner! By the time you get the correct gear for the SDR to do all it's tricks, i.e. correct antenna, low-loss coax, dongle, up-converter, and the computer with 8GB RAM and duo core x64 processor and SDR software that is installed and runs reliably (and that's a big ask I think) you could buy a Uniden 396XT that still does far more than a SDR set up but would cost the same or less and it will go in a pouch on your hip if needed.
Don't forget CB radios either! Not hand held ones, but a basic unit and a tuned antenna set up on top of a truck (or with a perpendicular ground plane) will do quite a bit and doesn't take any licensing. One can even DX with CB's so there is that fun to be had.
Like a lot of tech systems, there are trade offs. You don't need to necessarily monitor 1.2GHZ or much above 70cm if you're looking to get public safety info; in fact a receiver that gets 150mhz to 170mhz will get you the majority of the important local traffic (a generalization, but mostly true with exceptions of course). If you try to monitor everything, then you are not only burdened with more system usage (maxed cpu) but while you're scanning bands that are rarely used, or only for specific applications, and/or mostly encrypted, you'll miss the relevant traffic. I've collected a data bank of 1600 channels that I've programed into my Uniden 396T, all of which I could be monitoring. But after years and years of listening, I can confidently say 95% of the traffic takes place in a couple dozen frequencies (around here; if you live in a metro area that's different for example); so my point is you lose relevance and utility trying to 'get it all' and are better off making strategic choices.

And, appropriately, here's an excellent article from an excellent website that I find has quality information and advice:Understanding Survivalist Communications Needs

 

[Doc In UPlace]

Yeah dunno if you're going to be able to combine the solar aspect with the FM/AM Shortwave requirement; maybe set up a solar charger for batteries and use those to keep the radio running...?

I have one of the little Baofeng radios and it is a handy deal, does the bands you wanted and is really tuneable, even in (and off the scale of) the AM band, etc.

Certainly a frontrunner in the best bang-for-bucks category, gets loud and lots of accessories are available, including a AA battery pack. Dang I should dig mine out coming to think of it! Where'd I put that thing?

 

[The Heretic]

I am a software developer so I could write the software if I had to.

That said, good points about the scanners - I was thinking more about the lower bands - HF and so on - to get world news than I was local news.

I was also thinking about comms from my home (my BOL) than anything in the field with the SDR - having something that would pickup on what locals might be doing and use that as intel.

As for CBs - I would go with an amateur 10 meter setup that could be modded slightly to pickup the CB chatter.

 

[OutlawHoss]

I am a software developer so I could write the software if I had to.

That said, good points about the scanners - I was thinking more about the lower bands - HF and so on - to get world news than I was local news.

I was also thinking about comms from my home (my BOL) than anything in the field with the SDR - having something that would pickup on what locals might be doing and use that as intel.

As for CBs - I would go with an amateur 10 meter setup that could be modded slightly to pickup the CB chatter.

I think there are more than a few hams who like to add the 11 meter to their HF rig, and for us that makes sense. For people who aren't amateur radio operators, and don't know the first thing about mods but want/need an off the shelf system, I think CB's are more accessible and simpler. It's less common to find a single band 10m radio, and more common to find them in a multi-band transceiver, which is that much more complicated to mod. I think having multiple band specific/dedicated radios is a good idea whereas only a few or one radio leaves one with less backup, less adaptability, and more vulnerability. CB's in vehicles are extremely useful. My Cobra 29LT and Wilson 1000 antenna gets out to Grants Pass from the eastern part of the Rogue Valley, 30+ miles, topography being the main limiter.
Having 2m and 70cm is the easiest ham ticket to get, and the most useful for local comms, as well as the most used and supported with many repeaters by hams and public safety organizations, with some repeaters linked to state-wide systems, and even multi-state systems. So far my Baofeng BF-F8HP works really well with a Nagoya dual band antenna and the larger BL-5 3800mAh battery (of which I have many). With that being said, I'm investing in a better made and time tested Yaesu HT, likely a FT-60R as it has what I want without the new digital modes which I don't find useful in an HT (although some do).
It's not a bad idea at all, in acquiring multi- and cross- use radios to have a receiver only radio for monitoring, of which the SDR may fill ticket. But for simplicity, compactness, mobility, the receiver only HF/VHF/UHF HT's and mobile units are far more durable, adaptable, and easier to maintain than a radio dependent on Windows (or any OS really) working correctly, especially in a SHTF where an OS/laptop can become corrupted and there is limited ability to restore it. Personally, I wouldn't depend on any laptop based radio for my potentially life saving/preserving radio comms.

 

[PaulB47]

For monitoring, don't all those radios require a body to sit there and listen? And only on one channel at a time? And doesn't SDR allow recording, so you don't have to sit there and listen? And on multiple channels at the same time?

As to corrupting PC's, that is what backups are for. And you can find 20 computers for every radio out there (other than CB I suppose), if you need a replacement. Anyway you just boot off a flash drive, don't even need a hard drive in the system. I just found this bootable ISO which I'm going to try, a very nice package it seems:
Skywave Linux

As to computer power, lots of computers are going to have adequate power. It's just the fan noise when they are running hot that is annoying. I was running my old laptop listening to music on 89.9 "All Classical" but the fan noise quickly brought me back to my senses.

I don't think any signal processing happens in the lower cost SDRs. I looked at the block diagram for the SDRPlay and didn't see any. That is what the computer is for.

 

[ChiefStealth]

Having 2m and 70cm is the easiest ham ticket to get, and the most useful for local comms, as well as the most used and supported with many repeaters by hams and public safety organizations, with some repeaters linked to state-wide systems, and even multi-state systems.

Agreed! CB, FRS, GMRS, MURS, are easy-to-use, and cheap. But is there anyone out there on those freqs that have any info that you can use in an emergency? Do Police, Fire, state/county EOC, ARES, etc.. hang out on those freqs? No. The people with knowledge hang out on amateur freqs. That's where the good info will be.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

The importance of the self-discipline required to keep the hand off the microphone is too difficult to emphasize in a "before-situation" on-line forum.

Suffice to say that in a Post Rule of Law & Post Internet scenario, there will probably be a proliferation of survivalist/militia v survivalist/militia violence (I mean real violence) once the easy "targets" have dried up... (I'd give it three weeks, tops).

If and only if the radio operator is truly serious about survival; consider or follow these COMSEC recommendations:

1. The X-mit button should ONLY be pushed when necessary.
2. ONLY for the minimum time required.
3. ONLY using a brevity matrix or other coded formats.
4. ONLY from a mobile platform.
5. ONLY when NO OTHER means of comms are possible.

What we do in regards to coordination between trusted radio stations before the SHTF is the imperative.

 

[OutlawHoss]

Agreed! CB, FRS, GMRS, MURS, are easy-to-use, and cheap. But is there anyone out there on those freqs that have any info that you can use in an emergency? Do Police, Fire, state/county EOC, ARES, etc.. hang out on those freqs? No. The people with knowledge hang out on amateur freqs. That's where the good info will be.

I'm not sure what you mean by your statement that public safety hangs out on amateur freqs? By very definition public safety uses public safety frequencies which aren't in the amateur bands. HF frequencies aren't used at all (or rarely) by local agencies for local comms. There is a reason for the FCC band plan and it's assignment of frequencies and bands, mainly to use the optimum frequencies needed for the type and range of transmissions. There is a reason that ARES/RACES, SAR, CAP, and all first responders use primarily 2m and 70cm frequencies because they are the best choice for local emcomms; and when stuff is going down, that's where they are (you can go to RadioReference.com - Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference and find them in their maintained database). I know, because I hear them there regularly, and that is where they have exclusive use of frequencies assigned to them (in contrast to amateur which are available to a licensee with appropriate privileges). In addition, their repeaters are backed up with alternate power sources to run independently of infrastructure being compromised; amateur organizations do this too, and those repeaters aren't exclusive so any amateur can use them; why not have a radio that can hit local repeaters: your comms range and signal strength could be significantly augmented (for an exhaustive, regularly updated, and searchable database of repeaters, their input and output freqs, CTCCS/DCS PL's, and type of power source, check this site out: Repeaterbook.com - Home). They would not isolate and harden their regular frequencies and repeaters just to abandon them in a disaster. Bigger Federal, and National agencies use HF frequencies of course so yes they're just as important; many national and international broadcast stations in addition to amateur stantions will be crucial to 3rd party news, i.e. not government approved news. But in the first few days of a major event, it's the regular public safety frequencies which will be most crucial and are prepared for such circumstances; and unless you can decrypt NORCOM and other government/military hf transmissions, they won't be of much use.
In an extended disaster, like the Cascadia event, there will be good people facilitating information dissemination, both official and non-official, on the best channels available, but, in my observation of some people's behavior on the amateur bands, there will be some people causing problems, interfering at least or passing bad info intentionally at worst, which one has to be discriminating of. Unfortunately, and I don't think this was always the case, but there are people who are nothing but trouble on the air, so you can't (and shouldn't) make the generalization that amateur radio frequencies will always have the real information.

This is an excellent organization for non-government local and national information and support that I will monitor/use in an emergency or catastrophe: AMRRON | Communications for Preppers, Patriots, Redoubters and Partisans

As well as:Radio Free Redoubt which has a protocol for people to volunteer to be local fm broadcast stations to relay information from pre-planned HF frequencies by linking with small legal fm broadcasting units. I think if someone want to be of service to their neighbors, or their brothers in arms, they should explore this option. It's a well thought out protocol that in a SHTF or disaster scenario, at least one person in your group of allies or friendlies who can link a small fm broadcast unit to their HF rig set to receive info from AmRRON and TAPRN channels, will be of great importance. Almost everyone as an FM radio available, even if it's just in your vehicle.

 

[OutlawHoss]

The importance of the self-discipline required to keep the hand off the microphone is too difficult to emphasize in a "before-situation" on-line forum.

Suffice to say that in a Post Rule of Law & Post Internet scenario, there will probably be a proliferation of survivalist/militia v survivalist/militia violence (I mean real violence) once the easy "targets" have dried up... (I'd give it three weeks, tops).

If and only if the radio operator is truly serious about survival; consider or follow these COMSEC recommendations:

1. The X-mit button should ONLY be pushed when necessary.
2. ONLY for the minimum time required.
3. ONLY using a brevity matrix or other coded formats.
4. ONLY from a mobile platform.
5. ONLY when NO OTHER means of comms are possible.

What we do in regards to coordination between trusted radio stations before the SHTF is the imperative.

This is extremely true, and I couldn't agree more that this should be people's attitude towards radio comms.
In the vein of COMSEC, using prepared transmissions in modes of minimum bandwidth, (e.g. CW, Packet, RTTY and others that allow one way tx 'in the blind', i.e. transmitted without needing to confirm reception), at designated times and of short duration is extremely advantageous. A low power (QRP) tx using a highly directional or beam antenna is an excellent counter-surveillance technique which will also help to minimize undesired interception of info, as well as greatly reduce any DF efforts (direction finding leading to the discovery of the source of a transmission by a surveillance entity).

 

[The Heretic]

Agreed! CB, FRS, GMRS, MURS, are easy-to-use, and cheap. But is there anyone out there on those freqs that have any info that you can use in an emergency? Do Police, Fire, state/county EOC, ARES, etc.. hang out on those freqs? No. The people with knowledge hang out on amateur freqs. That's where the good info will be.

I live out in the boonies so I am not quite as interested in what first responders are talking about in the urban/suburban areas as I am interested in whether my neighbors a mile or two down the mountain have seen with regards to strangers coming up the road - maybe "zombie" gangs making their way up the road attacking my neighbors. I want to know that so I can either help them or get prepared for the attackers.

More likely, it will be less about gangs coming out of the cities than it will be just keeping in touch. Maybe helping a neighbor who had a tree fall on their house, or who is elderly and needs to be taken someplace safe - that kind of stuff. In short, keeping in touch with my community, which is spread out, and if phones go out along with the internet, then that leaves RF comms.

 

[The Heretic]

Which brings up the idea of a WiFi mesh network.

A WiFi mesh network can provide you computer and cell comms without the cell towers and without the internet.

You can also setup surveillance cams and access them remotely, from miles away.

I don't have a mesh network, but my internet access is via long distance WiFi; I have a planar antenna on my roof that connects to my neighbors directional antenna, which in turn connects to an access point to Comcast about 5 miles away in the valley.

 

[OutlawHoss]

For monitoring, don't all those radios require a body to sit there and listen? And only on one channel at a time? And doesn't SDR allow recording, so you don't have to sit there and listen? And on multiple channels at the same time?

As to corrupting PC's, that is what backups are for. And you can find 20 computers for every radio out there (other than CB I suppose), if you need a replacement. Anyway you just boot off a flash drive, don't even need a hard drive in the system. I just found this bootable ISO which I'm going to try, a very nice package it seems:
Skywave Linux

As to computer power, lots of computers are going to have adequate power. It's just the fan noise when they are running hot that is annoying. I was running my old laptop listening to music on 89.9 "All Classical" but the fan noise quickly brought me back to my senses.

I don't think any signal processing happens in the lower cost SDRs. I looked at the block diagram for the SDRPlay and didn't see any. That is what the computer is for.

For me, your points only demonstrate why a computer based radio is much more difficult to maintain. If I have a HT unit, I can put it on my kit or on my belt, and with an earpiece I remain completely mobile, not having to sit in order to monitor; I can stay off the x and left of bang. I wouldn't put any Microsoft, Apple, etc computer product in the place of providing potentially life and death information. An actual radio needs none of the above, just a power source. As far as recording radio traffic, I can't think of a more useless feature in a survival situation where time is of the essence. They may be interesting and fun features, but they're too removed from real-world uses to be worthy of investment for SHTF or survival comms. In my opinion, obviously; for me, security is measured as an inverse proportion to technology: higher levels of security comes from a minimum amount of reliance on the least complex tech needed to accomplish a function. For others, I can see the degree of sophistication of their tech is positively proportional to their sense of security. The way I see it, I am the most effective piece of tech, and each degree of separation from myself is another potential point of failure, so each necessary piece of tech has to be as robust as possible.

 

[OutlawHoss]

Which brings up the idea of a WiFi mesh network.

A WiFi mesh network can provide you computer and cell comms without the cell towers and without the internet.

You can also setup surveillance cams and access them remotely, from miles away.

I don't have a mesh network, but my internet access is via long distance WiFi; I have a planar antenna on my roof that connects to my neighbors directional antenna, which in turn connects to an access point to Comcast about 5 miles away in the valley.

I think this is a great use for the tech, but depending on time, place, and circumstances, a constant radio presence could also be a liability. It comes down to what one really needs in their specific situation, and what risk versus rewards one is willing to accept.

 

[The Heretic]

I think this is a great use for the tech, but depending on time, place, and circumstances, a constant radio presence could also be a liability. It comes down to what one really needs in their specific situation, and what risk versus rewards one is willing to accept.

I am not worried so much about the gov. knowing where I am - they know that already and a WiFi signal isn't going to hurt much in that regard.

The typical danger from a low power RF signal (WiFi is often DSS) is either going to be government. Most other threats are not going to be searching out WiFi signals to find targets.

The nice thing about a WiFi mesh network is that people could continue using their cell phones in a relatively close proximity and the RF signal is much lower power than that of the typical HT, plus, depending on which type of WiFi they setup, the signal is spread spectrum - which tends to be harder to detect from a distance. Also, for long distance hops (like mine down into the valley), the signal is very directional - only close up would you make it omni directional and then it is fairly short range.

 

[ChiefStealth]

I'm not sure what you mean by your statement that public safety hangs out on amateur freqs? By very definition public safety uses public safety frequencies which aren't in the amateur bands. HF frequencies aren't used at all (or rarely) by local agencies for local comms. There is a reason for the FCC band plan and it's assignment of frequencies and bands, mainly to use the optimum frequencies needed for the type and range of transmissions. There is a reason that ARES/RACES, SAR, CAP, and all first responders use primarily 2m and 70cm frequencies because they are the best choice for local emcomms; and when stuff is going down, that's where they are (you can go to RadioReference.com - Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference and find them in their maintained database). I know, because I hear them there regularly, and that is where they have exclusive use of frequencies assigned to them (in contrast to amateur which are available to a licensee with appropriate privileges). In addition, their repeaters are backed up with alternate power sources to run independently of infrastructure being compromised; amateur organizations do this too, and those repeaters aren't exclusive so any amateur can use them; why not have a radio that can hit local repeaters: your comms range and signal strength could be significantly augmented (for an exhaustive, regularly updated, and searchable database of repeaters, their input and output freqs, CTCCS/DCS PL's, and type of power source, check this site out: Repeaterbook.com - Home). They would not isolate and harden their regular frequencies and repeaters just to abandon them in a disaster. Bigger Federal, and National agencies use HF frequencies of course so yes they're just as important; many national and international broadcast stations in addition to amateur stantions will be crucial to 3rd party news, i.e. not government approved news. But in the first few days of a major event, it's the regular public safety frequencies which will be most crucial and are prepared for such circumstances; and unless you can decrypt NORCOM and other government/military hf transmissions, they won't be of much use.
In an extended disaster, like the Cascadia event, there will be good people facilitating information dissemination, both official and non-official, on the best channels available, but, in my observation of some people's behavior on the amateur bands, there will be some people causing problems, interfering at least or passing bad info intentionally at worst, which one has to be discriminating of. Unfortunately, and I don't think this was always the case, but there are people who are nothing but trouble on the air, so you can't (and shouldn't) make the generalization that amateur radio frequencies will always have the real information.

This is an excellent organization for non-government local and national information and support that I will monitor/use in an emergency or catastrophe: AMRRON | Communications for Preppers, Patriots, Redoubters and Partisans

As well as:Radio Free Redoubt which has a protocol for people to volunteer to be local fm broadcast stations to relay information from pre-planned HF frequencies by linking with small legal fm broadcasting units. I think if someone want to be of service to their neighbors, or their brothers in arms, they should explore this option. It's a well thought out protocol that in a SHTF or disaster scenario, at least one person in your group of allies or friendlies who can link a small fm broadcast unit to their HF rig set to receive info from AmRRON and TAPRN channels, will be of great importance. Almost everyone as an FM radio available, even if it's just in your vehicle.

Way too many points to answer in one post. I'll be brief. In my area, in emergencies, public safety does hang out on amateur freqs. 2m & 70cm.
My experience is obviously very different from yours with people passing bad info or interfering on amateur freqs.
AMRRON national on HF may be of some use during emergency. In my area AMRRON local nets are non-existent.

 

[OutlawHoss]

Way too many points to answer in one post. I'll be brief. In my area, in emergencies, public safety does hang out on amateur freqs. 2m & 70cm.
My experience is obviously very different from yours with people passing bad info or interfering on amateur freqs.
AMRRON national on HF may be of some use during emergency. In my area AMRRON local nets are non-existent.

Yes, very good point. There are a lot of variables depending on local circumstances. But I am surprised that a Police Department or Fire and Rescue are using amateur frequencies; that doesn't sound right to me but maybe there is more to the story. AmRRON doesn't have local nets everywhere as they are relatively new and they're certainly not endorsed by ARRL (in fact probably the opposite, especially in light of the controversy involving amateur volunteers in the civil auxiliary orgs legal carrying) so it's a developing system for sure. For members there is a directory listing, and from what I've seen there a lot more members than what one would guess from the limited amount of nets listed. That being said, they are encouraging of new nets, and it all comes down to participation.

 

[Camelfilter]

This is extremely true, and I couldn't agree more that this should be people's attitude towards radio comms.
In the vein of COMSEC, using prepared transmissions in modes of minimum bandwidth, (e.g. CW, Packet, RTTY and others that allow one way tx 'in the blind', i.e. transmitted without needing to confirm reception), at designated times and of short duration is extremely advantageous. A low power (QRP) tx using a highly directional or beam antenna is an excellent counter-surveillance technique which will also help to minimize undesired interception of info, as well as greatly reduce any DF efforts (direction finding leading to the discovery of the source of a transmission by a surveillance entity).
View attachment 328267

This message for our friends behind the lines..."John has a long mustache...The chair is against the wall..." Now we return to some classic Elton John...

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

AmRRON Public Frequencies

Band Description Frequency

80 Meters AmRRON 80 Meter (Public) 3.818

40 Meters AmRRON 40 Meter (Public) 7.242

20 Meters AmRRON 20 Meter (Public) 14.242

2 Meters AmRRON 2 Meter (Public) 146.420

70 Ctmtr AmRRON 70cm (Public) 446.025

CB CH3 - Citizen Band (Pubic) 26.985

FRS/GMRS CH3 - Family Radio Service (Public) 462.6125

MURS CH3 – Multi-Use Radio Service (Public) 151.940

 

[USMC-03]

You guys are starting to make my non-tech grunt head implode; I've got my homework cut out for me...

 

[ChiefStealth]

(snip) But I am surprised that a Police Department or Fire and Rescue are using amateur frequencies; that doesn't sound right to me but maybe there is more to the story.

I think I should clarify. My local Police, Fire, Rescue, etc. do not use amateur freqs for routine, daily, non-emergency operations. They get on amateur freqs only during emergency declarations. When an emergency is declared, or during an emergency exercise, many different agencies check into the emergency nets run by the various EOCs. Those nets are on amateur freqs. In a real emergency, those agencies will be sharing emergency information on those nets. So, if we have a SHTF situation, Police, Fire, Rescue will be on amateur freqs. Only during emergencies. But, it was emergency communications that this thread was all about... wasn't it?