Emergency Radios

[USMC-03]

I'm doing some research into solar powered emergency radios and thought I'd ask for opinions and recommendations. Interested in AM/FM, weather, short wave receiver; not worried much about flashlight or other extra functions.

What's a good brand and model for a reasonable price?

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[Bigbaddude]

ccrane.com has some nice emergency radios for under $60.
I don't own one but have heard good things about them.

 

[rdb241]

Ditto.........good quality stuff

 

[Riot]

FYI these are the radios most of the prepper *cough* militia *cough* guys use...lots of good reviews.

Amazon.com: BaoFeng UV-5R Dual Band Two Way Radio (Black): Cell Phones & Accessories

This is my radio...love it, just wish it had as much software support that the BaoFengs do.

Amazon.com: Quansheng TG-UV2 Dual Band Handheld Portable Radio: Sports & Outdoors


FYI these are UNLICENSED RADIOS...meaning that they will transmit on any frequency you enter in. Most radios are set to a fixed frequency and transmit power range so that it doesn't interfere with normal radio communications. You can get into trouble with these radios if you use them improperly since they will transmit on any frequency (i.e. police, fire, ambulance) that you enter in. Be prepared to pay a hefty fine if you go on a licensed channel with an unlicensed radio.

 

[The Heretic]

Grundig is a decent brand of receiver.

Baofeng is a decent brand of two way handhelds that - depending on the model - can cover GMRS/FRS, 2 meter/70cm ham, RX weather, RX commercial FM and some emergency responder freqs. I have the 8 watt model and it works well - I got 3 of them for about $35 each on sale. I have seen the 5 watt models for for as low as $20.

These are often not "type accepted" handhelds - i.e., not FCC approved for operation. They generally meet the transmit criteria as far as the amateur bands go, but they also transmit on freqs outside the amateur bands and IIRC that prevents them from being FCC typed for ham operators. And vice versa - FRS/GMRS radios not supposed to operate outside their freqs.

If you don't use your amateur callsign on the freqs outside the amateur freqs (not supposed to anyway) on these radios, then generally no one is going to have a problem with it - generally. It is just that the radio doesn't meet the criteria for approval because of that. But it makes a good inexpensive handheld for emergency purposes because of that.

Also, the TX power is way above that allowed for the FRS operation (restricted to 500 mW) and it has a removable antenna that is also not allowed by regs (they don't want you to put a better antenna on FRS/GMRS handhelds so as to limit the transmit range).

If you want to operate any transceiver in amateur radio freqs, you need to get an amateur operator license - you have to take a test, but the novice license is not that hard to get. Do NOT operate on amateur freqs without the license - hams will hunt you down and report you to the FCC - seriously, they will - and rightfully so.

I gave my kids one of these radios each for their GHBs. They don't have any licenses but they know that these would only be for emergencies (I really need to get them setup properly). They will operate only on FRS/GMRS freqs.

I plan to get a half dozen or so of the 5 watt Baofengs next time I see them really cheap, and have them on hand for my neighbors (I live on a private road in the boonies with about 8 families on the road). If SHTF such that we needed comms (cell phones not working) then I would distribute the handhelds to select neighbors.

 

[PaulB47]

Are there any Baofeng types that allow you to transmit at a lower power? Often all you need is GMRS/FRS, and I'd like to have a radio with good emergency capabilities, yet useful for normal unlicensed operation. Transmitting at 5w probably is a telltale sign that I don't want to put out there.

 

[The Heretic]

Yes - most transceivers have low power settings so you do not overpower receivers that are in close proximity. The Baofeng 5W handhelds have 1W and 5W, the 8W has 1W, 4W and 8W power settings

Also, with the short stubby antennas you won't get out very far - most manufacturers who give some kind of range estimate grossly overestimate the range - often by more than a factor of ten.

 

[The Heretic]

Understand that RF signals are ruled by the inverse square law of power.

E.G., the power of your signal at 1 mile is reduced by four times at 2 miles, at 4 miles it is reduced by 16 times. Each time you increase the distance, the power is reduced by the square of distance.

To put it another way - if your signal at 1 watt is adequate at 1 mile, then you will need to bump up the power to 4 watts to get the same signal at 2 miles. If your signal is at 4 watts is adequate at 2 miles, you need to bump it up to 16 watts to be adequate at 4 miles.

Of course there are other factors to consider - the terrain (the freqs that FRS/GMRS and 2M amateur use are line of sight - a hill or building can easily block your signal), the antenna type, height, length, signal types (modulation, etc.) and frequencies.

Just as you will had "dead spots" with a cell phone, so will you with any transceiver.

 

[The Heretic]

Understanding Wireless Range Calculations

 

[ChiefStealth]

I'd like to have a radio with good emergency capabilities, yet useful for normal unlicensed operation. Transmitting at 5w probably is a telltale sign that I don't want to put out there.

The Baofeng radios have the "good emergency capabilities". During a real emergency you can use anything you want, any way you want. But, regardless of transmit power, the Baofengs are not legal to use on FRS/GMRS during non-emergency conditions. Can't use them on FRS or GMRS, because they have a removable antenna. They also transmit more powder than FRS allows. And, GMRS requires a license in non-emergency conditions.
So, legally what you do, is get proper radios and licenses during non-emergency, and use the Baofengs during emergency. You can always use the Baofengs on ham freqs, if you have an amateur license. In emergency, no amateur license needed.

 

[The Heretic]

Eventually I will also get a digital system. Yaesu makes has a C4FM digital system, with dual band (2M/70cm) handsets and portables and all band base stations.

These are expensive though.

They do give you some interesting capabilities - built in GPS with the ability to send the position automatically or on demand (I think?), and a bit more security as the typical inexpensive ham receiver won't decode the digital signal, only analog signals.

Digital won't provide security against others with similar capabilities - encryption is typically not allowed in most public radios (the government wants the capability to easily listen in), but would be a step up against the majority of the public who won't have that digital capability.

 

[The Heretic]

The Baofeng radios have the "good emergency capabilities". During a real emergency you can use anything you want, any way you want. But, regardless of transmit power, the Baofengs are not legal to use on FRS/GMRS during non-emergency conditions. Can't use them on FRS or GMRS, because they have a removable antenna. They also transmit more powder than FRS allows. And, GMRS requires a license in non-emergency conditions.
So, legally what you do, is get proper radios and licenses during non-emergency, and use the Baofengs during emergency. You can always use the Baofengs on ham freqs, if you have an amateur license. In emergency, no amateur license needed.

My understanding is that amateur licensees are not supposed to use non "type accepted" transceivers, so the Baofengs are technically not legal there either.

That said, everybody and their dogs uses them - they just do not flaunt it. The FCC doesn't care that much I don't think, and neither do most hams.

As for FRS/GMRS, as I said in my earlier post and you pointed out, they are not supposed to have a removable antenna. So technically illegal there too. Again, I am not concerned about that either as the FCC is not going around checking people's handsets - as long as the operator stays on the right freq with the right mode with the proper license.

It is when you start becoming a nuisance - interfering with other people's comms on a regular basis, that you might expect somebody to complain and the FCC to show up in a white van with antennas all over it.

Even - especially - in an emergency, you should be really careful to follow the rules - the ham community trains for emergencies and we tolerate interference and abuse even less when there are lives on the line.

 

[USMC-03]

Well, I'm getting far more detail that expected. This is great information; thanks and keep it coming.

 

[The Heretic]

There is another thread in this forum on radios.

HAM Radio Starter Kit - Information for Beginners

 

[CountryGent]

I have had generally good results with Grundig receivers. So a plus one to that make.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

I'm doing some research into solar powered emergency radios and thought I'd ask for opinions and recommendations. Interested in AM/FM, weather, short wave receiver; not worried much about flashlight or other extra functions.

What's a good brand and model for a reasonable price?

If you are still looking; consider the Tecsun PL 600 receiver for about $60.00. It will pick up many types of stations from all over the planet; it works really well with a simple straight wire hung up in a tree. This radio uses very little power when not in scanning mode and doesn't take much to charge it.

More listening and less talking! The Baofengs are a good choice for local comms, but since talking may not always be the best thing to be doing....

 

[The Heretic]

If you are still looking; consider the Tecsun PL 600 receiver for about $60.00. It will pick up many types of stations from all over the planet; it works really well with a simple straight wire hung up in a tree. This radio uses very little power when not in scanning mode and doesn't take much to charge it.

More listening and less talking! The Baofengs are a good choice for local comms, but since talking may not always be the best thing to be doing....

Certainly - having someone listening much of the time is recommended. An SDR (Software Defined Radio) is recommended also. You plug it into your USB port on a laptop and program it to scan the frequencies and modes you want to keep track of. For listening this would be a good inexpensive way to cover a lot of bandwidth.

That said, I have only read about them and I don't have one yet, so I wouldn't mind hearing from others who have some experience in that area.

An SDR requiring a computer (or maybe a smartphone?) is not bad - a decent solar panel to charge the laptop battery (or a separate lithium ion battery) is quite doable - my laptop only uses 25 watts at most - less than many LED lightbulbs.

 

[MrMillspecer]

I'm happy w the Eton Microlink has weather alerts and hand crank or solar to recharge itself or cell phones. Midland makes a nice one as well. Picked up one to give as a gift. Seems to be well made.

 

[PaulB47]

I have played with SDR. I can't imagine trying to scan without it.

It's been a while so I can't remember a lot of details. One thing I ended up doing was getting a long USB cable to get me up to the antenna; the receiver should be as close to the antenna as you reasonably can get it. Or you can just run the RF down to your computer room but IIRC I think this impacts the signal some.

Another thing is to get a computer with some processing power. The SDR does Fourier Transforms which takes some number crunching. It's also kind of annoying trying to listen to the radio output when your laptop has its fan running at max speed. I suppose using headphones rather than the pc speakers would help there.

I run Linux rather than Windows. The software available for Linux is almost (but not quite) as extensive as that for Windows. But it is good enough.

You can get your feet wet with one of these:
Amazon.com: NooElec NESDR Mini 2+ 0.5PPM TCXO RTL-SDR & ADS-B USB Receiver Set w/ Antenna, Suction Mount, Female SMA Adapter & Remote Control, RTL2832U & R820T2 Tuner. Low-Cost Software Defined Radio.: Electronics

No doubt you can find them even cheaper. However you have to spend some extra money to get an upconverter(?) to use that in the HF band. I also have one of these:

RSP1 – SDRplay

It's got a LOT more bandwidth and doesn't require an upconverter, but IIRC requires even more processing power in the PC. I've seen these sold in Ham stores and they seem to fly off the shelves. They also have a new one, the RSP2 for a bit more money.

 

[The Heretic]

I would think most computers today would have enough compute power to handle the signal processing - I would expect the SDR itself to have a DSP in it and not have the computer do that for it.

If I had to I could use my 2008 MacPro (it has very quiet fans) with 8 Xeons could handle it, and yes, I think headphones would be best. But I bet my 2011 MBA could handle it too.