Elk calibers

[SDR]

Just this year over thanksgiving a Cow Elk hunt... Thirteen guys in camp,One particular kid was catching a huge amount of guff from the rest of the kids,He had a 30/30 lever gun,Not my choice,But we can work with it...The rest had 308,06's,7mm's...out of all the kids in camp the boy with a 30/30 was the only one to kill a Elk...50 Yrds behind the shoulder went fifteen feet and tipped over...I have done this same shot many times with a 300Win mag and they took off like I missed,I did not of course but the animal reaction was like it did not feel a thing...The 30/30 reaction was you know it was hit hard and the results much faster as it going down...

Like anything you can have a good plan on paper but the proof is in the field...

My question is with all this who whoa about fast small bullets being the ticket,Would you trust these to do the job on a thousand pound charging brown bear ?...Or would you want a bigger slower moving bullet so that animal that wants to tear you to shreds and eat you feels all the energy of that bigger bullet ... Elk are just as tough,They just don't want to eat you,Your mistake won't cost you your life , But it could cause a Elk to be wounded and suffering your mistake...

 

[badclam]

SDR

I would not shoot my 45/70 five hundred yards without more field testing and range time , But it is capable after learning trajectory , My choice would be a 300 Win mag over a 7MM...All in all ...Right On ...

I agree,a 300 WIN mag is better than a 7 mm, and a 338 UM is better than a 300 mag.
Bottom line is the ballistic charts don't have all the info needed to really determine the best round for large game.There are thousands of elk killed by thousands of men with hundreds of different cartridges that can tell you more than any charts about killing ability of a round.
I'm with you SDR. All these guy's that like shooting elk with 270's and such, should do some hunting for brown bear with the same rifles.
My one choice if I had to, for a single rifle for N. America would be a 300 WIN MAG. Lots of energy,lots of range, lots of data and bullets for reloading.

 

[Gunner3456]

All these guy's that like shooting elk with 270's and such, should do some hunting for brown bear with the same rifles.

The title of this thread is exactly "Elk Calibers." Not "Elephant Calibers"

Anything other than ELK isn't what at least I've been discussing...

I wouldn't go after a brown bear (grizzly) with a .270. I'd go after him with a .22lr and hit him in the eye - right into the brain, but then I can shoot!

 

[badclam]

Gunner3456,

The title of this thread is exactly "Elk Calibers." Not "Elephant Calibers"

Anything other than ELK isn't what at least I've been discussing...

I wouldn't go after a brown bear (grizzly) with a .270. I'd go after him with a .22lr and hit him in the eye - right into the brain, but then I can shoot!

First off I want to go bear hunting with,(behind) you.

I know we're talking about elk calibers. The comparison to brown bear was made to make the point that if you were worried about the animal coming back and eating you, in comparison to an animal running off wounded and dying slowly,you might pick a more appropriate cartridge.
You don't think that is following the threads train of thought.:huh:

 

[Phillyfan]

As far as .270 win vs. .270 short mag goes I don't feel much is gained, considering the loss of accuracy that may come with the added recoil. .270 win is large enough for anything you will hunt in the nortwest, and one of the flattest shooting as well. Perfect for deer, and elk.

 

[Gunner3456]

Gunner3456,

First off I want to go bear hunting with,(behind) you.

I know we're talking about elk calibers. The comparison to brown bear was made to make the point that if you were worried about the animal coming back and eating you, in comparison to an animal running off wounded and dying slowly,you might pick a more appropriate cartridge.
You don't think that is following the threads train of thought.:huh:

In all of my years of hunting, I've had only 6 ELK come back and try to eat me after being shot.

The only ELK I've ever seen run off, not be found by the shooter or his party, and be left to die on its own were the result of poorly placed shots and often from very large calibers.

 

[badclam]

Gunner3456

In all of my years of hunting, I've had only 6 ELK come back and try to eat me after being shot.

The only ELK I've ever seen run off, not be found by the shooter or his party, and be left to die on its own were the result of poorly placed shots and often from very large calibers.

Luckily,the elk in Wa. are not nearly as aggressive,and hardly ever seek revenge for being poorly shot. Now I know why most archery hunters kill, (stick) cow's.

There's no caliber that will make up for poor judgment and poor shot placement.

I actually killed my first elk with 2 shots from a 32 win Spl. It was the only rifle available to me at the time, I would however not recommend that caliber for elk.

 

[BigNickShooting]

I disagree on a 7Mag out shooting a 300Win...If a 7Mag is shooting a good horse power load and a 160 Grn bullet and the 300 is shooting a 190 Grn bullet then the 7Mag will be flatter shooting @ 400 Yrds...You compare a 175 Grn 7Mag to a 180 Gran 300 and the 300 will out do it and have more energy...
I use a Browning A-Bolt in a 300Win,I have taken a few Elk @ around 500Yrds,But I know this rifle like it is a part of my arm,I shoot it a lot ...
A friend of mine use to shoot a 7Mag and did ok at a distance,But up close and personal he seemed to shoot too many times,As if the animal was not getting hit...Get the hide off and yep it was hit...The bullet was just so fast and on the small side that the animal did not feel the energy....We raised the bullet weight and slowed it down and it worked better @ close range,But it petered out early on long range shots...He bought a 300 Win and put the 7Mag to bed...
It is a Chevy/Ford thing ...Some Ford Luvin 7Mag shooting guy will come back with Oh No #@#%&* on a 300 Win ....The one's who know shoot 300Win...

I agree with SDR. I own several rifles, but I can say my 300WinMag is the best when it comes to elk. Yes, 7mmRM goes flatter, faster and maybe further than 300WM but in terms of knocking power the latter is much better. I use my 30-06 for deer (with several loads between 125 and 165 gr) but the 185gr 300WM is much better for elk. If you want a brush gun, get a short barreled 45-70 that is good to 100-150 yds. I zero my scopes to 200 yds, therefore I know if it is 100 yds closer or higher I go either higher or lower for about 3.5" ... The best rule is practice with the rifle you are comfortable. The Short Magnums are popular, but they are also very expensive and they kick like mules. I usually go 5 shots under .75" MOA @ 200 yds ... and make sure you zero your scope before you go hunting. Also, the plastic tip bullets are the best. I have hit deer with soft point, he felt down and by the time I got where I shot him, he got up and left ... Obviousely I shot him in a hard point (maybe some bone) ..

Good luck hunting and follow the rules: Scout, go deeper than the other hunters, know your weapon, always share with somebody that stays home where you go hunting, and always get a back-up gun with you (preferably 44Mag or even .45 will work). You may find some bear in the brush that can't wait to get his teeth into your hide ...

 

[JC9995]

As far as .270 win vs. .270 short mag goes I don't feel much is gained, considering the loss of accuracy that may come with the added recoil. .270 win is large enough for anything you will hunt in the nortwest, and one of the flattest shooting as well. Perfect for deer, and elk.

Actually, one of the benefits of the Short mags is the REDUCED recoil in comparison to the equivalent cartridge in standard form. .270 WSM VS. .270.

 

[Phillyfan]

Actually, one of the benefits of the Short mags is the REDUCED recoil in comparison to the equivalent cartridge in standard form. .270 WSM VS. .270.

That's the opposite of everything I've heard or read about, and doesn't really make sense to me. A .270 wsm should have more recoil than a .270 win.

 

[Logical1]

well I have always used a 30-06 for elk and deer, however I just picked up a 300 RUM. Hopefully the added recoil wont give me poor accuracy, but Im sure I'll post it here next season. If your new I personally recommend the 30-06. the ammo is plentiful, they are comfortable for a 30 caliber to shoot often and they can take just about anything in north america (I would use a slightly larger caliber for brown bear though).

 

[JC9995]

That's the opposite of everything I've heard or read about, and doesn't really make sense to me. A .270 wsm should have more recoil than a .270 win.

As I have heard, it revolves around thermodynamics. Since they use a larger diameter caseing, they get more powder burning at the leading edge when discharged. Since they are getting more burning powder at a given instant, they can use less volatile powder, which produces more of a push, than a thump. This results in a lower perceived recoil.
Physics however, say that for every action, you have an equal and opposite reaction. That said though, if you spread the amount of time that something accelerates or decelerates, the perceived impact is lessoned. (airbag VS steering wheel.) In a car, your still hitting a brick wall at 30MPH, but it sure feels better when the airbag slows the stop, rather than the much more abrupt stop of the dash or steering wheel.
The whole thing with WSM's "seems" to make sense to me as far as the recoil goes. And your right that the benefit is not that much. Usually about 300-400 FPS over the standard cartridge in the same caliber.
Cheers.

 

[Phillyfan]

As I have heard, it revolves around thermodynamics. Since they use a larger diameter caseing, they get more powder burning at the leading edge when discharged. Since they are getting more burning powder at a given instant, they can use less volatile powder, which produces more of a push, than a thump. This results in a lower perceived recoil.
Physics however, say that for every action, you have an equal and opposite reaction. That said though, if you spread the amount of time that something accelerates or decelerates, the perceived impact is lessoned. (airbag VS steering wheel.) In a car, your still hitting a brick wall at 30MPH, but it sure feels better when the airbag slows the stop, rather than the much more abrupt stop of the dash or steering wheel.
The whole thing with WSM's "seems" to make sense to me as far as the recoil goes. And your right that the benefit is not that much. Usually about 300-400 FPS over the standard cartridge in the same caliber.
Cheers.

I know that I have read several posts from people who have both the win and the wsm in the same caliber, and all say that the recoil is greater with the wsm. Can't say for myself, as I have never tried a wsm in .270

 

[JC9995]

I know that I have read several posts from people who have both the win and the wsm in the same caliber, and all say that the recoil is greater with the wsm. Can't say for myself, as I have never tried a wsm in .270

Ya, I'm in the same boat. Its all speculation until we decide for ourselves.

 

[markw76]

With identical projectile and rifle mass, and assuming identical barrels:

Greater velocity = more recoil (equal/opposite reaction)

More powder burned = more recoil (jet effect)
​

IMO, any difference in "internal flame front" effect on recoil would be minuscule if it was even measurable.

The main purpose of the short magnums is to squeeze magnum performance from a shorter action, which would appear to increase felt recoil itself by allowing a lighter rifle to be used. Easier carry but more felt recoil.

 

[claypigeon]

I love my Remington in the 270win. It is a good round for both deer and elk and not too hard hitting.

 

[Crosshair]

My old 30-06 has never let me down when it comes to elk, or any other big game really. It's a very versatile round.

 

[booneh]

i think this 270 vs 30-06 started about 1935. some things never change.

booneh

 

[Phillyfan]

i think this 270 vs 30-06 started about 1935. some things never change.

booneh

Definately two of the best rounds ever.

 

[booneh]

the wsm cases have a larger base. more area to push on. more area more recoil. you can't fool mother nature.

booneh