Electricity Shortage Warnings Grow Across U.S.

[Cavedweller]

Tesla supercharging station packed in Oak Brook, dead cars line parking lot due to frigid temps

Electric vehicles may be the way of the future, but many EV owners are having trouble dealing with Chicago’s bitterly cold temperatures.

www.fox32chicago.com

 

[Cavedweller]

And I'd like to know what kind of range those fancy battery powered cars get when it's real cold and they use the heater? Producing heat with electricity uses a lot of electricity.

 

[Pete F]

Once again, after 30 years in power generation at large utility companies:

Cost of Production:

Hydro - 0.5¢ per kWh
Coal - 2.5¢ per kWh
Nuclear - 2.5¢ per kWh
Natural Gas (Combined Cycle) 4.5¢ per kWh
Natural Gas (Steam Turbine) 10¢ per kWh
Natural Gas (Gas Turbine) 18¢ per kWh
Solar (PV) 25¢ per kWh
Wind Turbine 25¢ per kWh

The overall mixture of these technologies produces an overall wholesale cost of about 8.5¢ per kWh. When coal, nuclear, and hydro are removed from the mix, as is happening now, and replaced with solar and wind, the wholesale cost becomes about 12¢ per kWh. Thus retail cost goes from 15¢ per kWh to around 25¢ per kWh. So if your previous monthly bill was $300, after the changes are made it would come out to around $420.

But wait, there's more. Steam turbine, nuclear, and gas turbines provide a commodity or two that solar and wind can't. First there's "dispatchability", the ability to supply exactly the amount of electricity demanded at any given moment, otherwise known as load following. Due to the non-storable nature of AC electricity, when you take a whiz at 3 am and flick the light on, some spinning generator somewhere has to be ready to supply those 100 watts instantaneously. Wind and solar can't do that. The capacity to absorb load instantaneously is a commodity known as spinning reserve, and people get paid for providing that capability. If we rely on wind and solar for the bulk of our electricity then we need to pay someone else to provide that spinning reserve. Under the old model it was just automatically available.

The other commodity is voltage support. When electricity is transmitted over long distances the voltage begins to drop off. The capability to provide voltage support is a similar situation to the spinning reserve situation. Solar and wind are not good at providing voltage support, because mostly it is large generators at power plants that are operated as synchronous condensers that now provide voltage support. Solar and wind have no such capacity.

And since not many generating plants of any type are being built to replace retired nuclear and coal plants, what utilities hope to rely on for capacity is called Time Of Use rates. Time of use rates are used to smooth out the daily demand curve. You can get by with less generating capacity if you "encourage" people to use electricity at other than peak times, by making a kWh cost $2.00 at 6pm-8pm, and 5¢ at 1am-4am. You can make this doable with "Smart" appliances that can schedule themselves to do work at odd hours.

The other way to avoid building new generation is to use those same "Smart" appliances (like air conditioners) and remotely cause them to shut themselves off during peak hours.

This is America's future under "climate change" mitigation.

As a Nuclear - Radiation Protection Specialist/Engineer for 15 years and 10 for PGE, that is the best summation that I have seen on the internet. I worked as a R&D Specialist for PGE and had seen the power problems coming. Retired about 8 years ago.

Remember that PGE shut down Trojan Nuclear Power Plant,1100 megawatts of CO2 free power. Brownouts KMA,

 

[USMC1911]

Brownouts... Oh come on. Not gonna happen on PGE property. If the BPA dams get removed that could be a possibility or a natural disaster but beyond that absolutely not. Let me guess, the massive Intel expansion and the data centers that are EVERYWHERE are being built because PGE property will run short of power?

 

[solv3nt]

I work in the 2nd largest city in MT.

So you have 20 people in your city?

 

[Mikej]

Once again, after 30 years in power generation at large utility companies:

Cost of Production:

Hydro - 0.5¢ per kWh
Coal - 2.5¢ per kWh
Nuclear - 2.5¢ per kWh
Natural Gas (Combined Cycle) 4.5¢ per kWh
Natural Gas (Steam Turbine) 10¢ per kWh
Natural Gas (Gas Turbine) 18¢ per kWh
Solar (PV) 25¢ per kWh
Wind Turbine 25¢ per kWh

The overall mixture of these technologies produces an overall wholesale cost of about 8.5¢ per kWh. When coal, nuclear, and hydro are removed from the mix, as is happening now, and replaced with solar and wind, the wholesale cost becomes about 12¢ per kWh. Thus retail cost goes from 15¢ per kWh to around 25¢ per kWh. So if your previous monthly bill was $300, after the changes are made it would come out to around $420.

But wait, there's more. Steam turbine, nuclear, and gas turbines provide a commodity or two that solar and wind can't. First there's "dispatchability", the ability to supply exactly the amount of electricity demanded at any given moment, otherwise known as load following. Due to the non-storable nature of AC electricity, when you take a whiz at 3 am and flick the light on, some spinning generator somewhere has to be ready to supply those 100 watts instantaneously. Wind and solar can't do that. The capacity to absorb load instantaneously is a commodity known as spinning reserve, and people get paid for providing that capability. If we rely on wind and solar for the bulk of our electricity then we need to pay someone else to provide that spinning reserve. Under the old model it was just automatically available.

The other commodity is voltage support. When electricity is transmitted over long distances the voltage begins to drop off. The capability to provide voltage support is a similar situation to the spinning reserve situation. Solar and wind are not good at providing voltage support, because mostly it is large generators at power plants that are operated as synchronous condensers that now provide voltage support. Solar and wind have no such capacity.

And since not many generating plants of any type are being built to replace retired nuclear and coal plants, what utilities hope to rely on for capacity is called Time Of Use rates. Time of use rates are used to smooth out the daily demand curve. You can get by with less generating capacity if you "encourage" people to use electricity at other than peak times, by making a kWh cost $2.00 at 6pm-8pm, and 5¢ at 1am-4am. You can make this doable with "Smart" appliances that can schedule themselves to do work at odd hours.

The other way to avoid building new generation is to use those same "Smart" appliances (like air conditioners) and remotely cause them to shut themselves off during peak hours.

This is America's future under "climate change" mitigation.

View attachment 1803956

All seems like plain old common sense to me. But now I know all the exact terms for what I already knew.
And like @The Heretic said, I wouldn't mind having an EV for bopping around town and errands, but I like road trips and overnighters, drives off road exploring. this tech is too new to be relying on it 100%.
I wish they would leave us the hell alone, and allow us to enjoy what we have left of our lives. 50 years down the road you can have your G-D electric dream world!

 

[Xaevian]

So you have 20 people in your city?

About 75k. A real metropolis!

 

[arakboss]

Oh the irony is rich here. The environment, which the solar farm was trying so hard to protect, pummels the solar farm.

Hail cripples massive solar farm, sparking resident concern about vulnerable 'green' tech | Fox News

A major hail storm near Houston knocked out large parts of a major solar farm, sparking energy reliability and chemical exposure concerns among nearby residents.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Certaindeaf]

As a Nuclear - Radiation Protection Specialist/Engineer for 15 years and 10 for PGE, that is the best summation that I have seen on the internet. I worked as a R&D Specialist for PGE and had seen the power problems coming. Retired about 8 years ago.

Remember that PGE shut down Trojan Nuclear Power Plant,1100 megawatts of CO2 free power. Brownouts KMA,

This thread is 23 pages. No one knows what summary you are talking about since you didn't reference it.

 

[arakboss]

This thread is 23 pages. No one knows what summary you are talking about since you didn't reference it.

Post # 440

 

[Certaindeaf]

Post # 440

For an engineer you'd think he'd a thought of that.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Chinese meddling with electrical infrastructure..

View: https://youtu.be/WjYkF_HmTes?feature=shared

 

[nammac]

Chinese meddling with electrical infrastructure..

View: https://youtu.be/WjYkF_HmTes?feature=shared

No worries. Brandon is on the bridge…

 

[Pete F]

For an engineer you'd think he'd a thought of that.

I won't start any engineer jokes, even though I have plenty. The summation was included in my post - from @ZigZagZeke.

Thanks @arakboss for listing the post number, but I would have thought that anyone reading it would have read what I was referring to, included in my comment/post.

 

[solv3nt]

I won't start any engineer jokes, even though I have plenty. The summation was included in my post - from @ZigZagZeke.

Thanks @arakboss for listing the post number, but I would have thought that anyone reading it would have read what I was referring to, included in my comment/post.

I'm blocked by Ziggy! Engineering jokes are almost as good as lawyer jokes, especially if they're civil (@sobo). Fire away!

 

[kmk1012]

I'm blocked by Ziggy! Engineering jokes are almost as good as lawyer jokes, especially if they're civil (@sobo). Fire away!

Hey now, careful. I did that the other day and regretted it

 

[solv3nt]

Hey now, careful. I did that the other day and regretted it

What, made fun of a civil?

 

[kmk1012]

What, made fun of a civil?

Not one in particular but in general. My BIL is one, he's a bit sensitive as well I've always been the one doing the work until recently, now I've seen both sides.

 

[solv3nt]

Not one in particular but in general. My BIL is one, he's a bit sensitive as well I've always been the one doing the work until recently, now I've seen both sides.

If you can't hack it in mechanical or electrical engineering you drop out to business or civil

 

[kmk1012]

If you can't hack it in mechanical or electrical engineering you drop out to business or civil

Hey now, I'd have to fall upwards to make it there! I've only made it past the best other tax payer funded employees around me. I'm at the "top" but still need people with bigger brains to assist me in my job.