Does your WA FFL charge sales tax on a transfer??

[mordecai]

I'm still trying to figure out what happens when you send yourself your own guns via FFL when going on a trip... How to keep the dealer from collecting what he's sure to be hit with as a "collectible" tax....

 

[bcp]

I'm still trying to figure out what happens when you send yourself your own guns via FFL when going on a trip... How to keep the dealer from collecting what he's sure to be hit with as a "collectible" tax....

That is not "...making transfers of either possession or title, or both, of tangible personal property for use in this state..."

I saw this happen last week in a WA FFL shop. The FFL started to figure tax. The owner reminded the FFL that he had shipped it to himself. The FFL said that in that case there would be no tax charged.

And it is specifically exempt from needing an FFL involved. Send them to yourself in care of someone you are visiting.

From:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?

Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

 

[seagoing]

I recently contacted 2 FFLs in the Seattle area.
One collected sales tax and the other one did not.

 

[N8Gunner]

..

 

[mordecai]

That is not "...making transfers of either possession or title, or both, of tangible personal property for use in this state..."

I saw this happen last week in a WA FFL shop. The FFL started to figure tax. The owner reminded the FFL that he had shipped it to himself. The FFL said that in that case there would be no tax charged.

And it is specifically exempt from needing an FFL involved. Send them to yourself in care of someone you are visiting.

Oh I understand it, and you understand it, but I was referring more to the FFL's understanding it. Then there's inheritance and gifting - when do you take title or possession. Do they charge tax on non-FFL controlled items that may accompany one's firearm? Oh the joy...

 

[smurf hunter]

Off topic slightly, but here's a real world scenario I want (need?) to understand.

My cousin back east is cleaning out grandpa's attic and finds an old Mauser. He knows I like to shoot and calls me up to ask if I'd like it.

I do a little leg work, find an FFL on his end, and locally to me. I make private arrangements with my cousin to repay his shipping and misc. expenses for sending it to me. I'm also going to pay whatever my local FFL charges (taxes, etc.).

I guess it'd be reasonable to pay sales/usage tax for the FFL transfer ~10% of $50 or whatever, but I don't believe an actual "sale" occurred in this scenario. I suppose this would be a "gift".

An important point is the value is unknown to the sender or receiver. Of course I may try to determine the worth of the rifle for my own curiosity, but that's not a prerequisite to the transaction - is it?

 

[N8Gunner]

,,

 

[smurf hunter]

N8,

That clears up a lot.

Assuming a valuable firearm in my example, perhaps a workaround to "fair market value" being the tax basis, is for my cousin to charge me $10.00 and include an receipt with the shipment

 

[N8Gunner]

''

 

[mordecai]

And this is where the joy comes in. Say your cousin gifts it to you. Is it now yours? If so, is it yours before it's sent and you are thereby exempt for shipping something of yours to yourself? We already know the tax-collector is going to angle to collect, but the point is each state has it's own transfer of title/ownership for property both at the point of origin and the point of delivery. The FFL's supposed to navigate this? Heck, how about dual-resident persons who live in two states - do I suppose they could be on the hook for three taxes under the right conditions? More joy!

 

[smurf hunter]

Yeah - what if I physically flew to NC, shook hands, took possession, went to a local FFL out there, shipped back to WA... then a couple weeks later went to my FFL. It is silly.

 

[N8Gunner]

''

 

[xtratoy]

Washington state is just a money collector. They even make you replace a perfectly good set of License Plates for your Car, Truck, Motorcycle or trailer every 7 years just so they can charge you $20.00. Its time to replace some Incumbents. Register to Vote and make a difference.

 

[j3hill]

All you FFL holders bullied into collecting this use tax should be ashamed. We went to war over a tea tax for gods sake. The state has NO way of making you collect it. You are all just cowards. I wonder what the next thing the state will "make" you do? Take pictures of every firearm you transfer? Limit you to a certain number of transfers a month? A year? And what about a firearm that has come back after factory service that has a had a slide or frame replaced?..new serial number, What damn use tax are you going to collect then? And I have no way of knowing what you actually do with CASH. Are you going to keep it until it's time to pay quarterly?...Nope. Cowards. And it's disgusting how you bow down and kiss the feet of an out of control government. Go down swinging.


>>>>>>Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
I'm not paying it, either WAY<<<<<<<
Wish there were more like you....and me. Infact I am on a mission now to put every last WA FFL kitchen table dealer out of business. I have advised everyone I know to not use the small list of FFL holders.
It makes me sad, but if they dont stand up ( and I am willing to help) then they fall.

 

[Trlsmn]

Wish there were more like you....and me. Infact I am on a mission now to put every last WA FFL kitchen table dealer out of business. I have advised everyone I know to not use the small list of FFL holders.
It makes me sad, but if they dont stand up ( and I am willing to help) then they fall.

Want to clarify that statement? That's quite inflammatory to many FFL's.

 

[j3hill]

Yep I will clarify that. I will not use a non retail brick and mortar store (ie, basement dealers) any more. And I am telling everyone I know that has used them in the past for transfers not to use them either. IF they are going to attempt to collect a Washington use tax. retail outlets always have.
And just to show that I am trying to help everyone, I am doping my best to get this done next year> Until then nobody gets a transfer fee from me.

 

[mordecai]

All you FFL holders bullied into collecting this use tax should be ashamed. We went to war over a tea tax for gods sake. <snip> Cowards. And it's disgusting how you bow down and kiss the feet of an out of control government. Go down swinging.

I suspect their response will be "You first."

 

[Trlsmn]

Yep I will clarify that. I will not use a non retail brick and mortar store (ie, basement dealers) any more. And I am telling everyone I know that has used them in the past for transfers not to use them either. IF they are going to attempt to collect a Washington use tax. retail outlets always have.
And just to show that I am trying to help everyone, I am doping my best to get this done next year>

The backbone of this forum are those "kitchen table" FFL dealers that help pay the expenses for all of us members to use this forum.

You are welcome to tell "your" friends whatever you wish outside of NWFA but I find it offensive to tell the members here that gain so much from those who have supported and helped NWFA grow to what it is today.

You're also welcome to post on your quest to change those points of the law and post about it here, I like the idea and support you in it.

Here comes the but, but don't post about not using non brick and mortar FFL's at NWFA again please, we don't turn on our own here.

 

[Redcap]

Infact I am on a mission now to put every last WA FFL kitchen table dealer out of business. I have advised everyone I know to not use the small list of FFL holders.
It makes me sad, but if they dont stand up ( and I am willing to help) then they fall.

Way to screw the little guy.

 

[HalfNutz]

j3hill. You've got the talking done... Good luck with your one-man Tea Party... NOT!

By all means, vote with your wallet. I for one, will not be along for the ride and will support my local FFL's in doing what they are required by law.

Got a problem with the law, take it up with Olympia. You'll have my full support.

Penalizing small 'kitchen table' FFL's for abiding by the law is akin to the asshats you see on TV boycotting their locally owned BP franchise gas stations for the spill in the gulf. You're going after the wrong people and are simply ignorant of the dynamics involved, so you just lash out. Educate yourself.