Does your WA FFL charge sales tax on a transfer??

[Trlsmn]

j3hill. You've got the talking done... Good luck with your one-man Tea Party... NOT!

By all means, vote with your wallet. I for one, will not be along for the ride and will support my local FFL's in doing what they are required by law.

Got a problem with the law, take it up with Olympia. You'll have my full support.

Penalizing small 'kitchen table' FFL's for abiding by the law is akin to the asshats you see on TV boycotting their locally owned BP franchise gas stations for the spill in the gulf. You're going after the wrong people and are simply ignorant of the dynamics involved, so you just lash out. Educate yourself.

Besides, doesn't he have it reversed? He say's the brick and mortar establishments are requiring the payment of the value tax on a transfer so how are they better than the kitchen table FFL, none of which have ever required that payment from me and I've purchased 4 long guns from Washington kitchen table FFL's.

 

[SquatchWorks]

If anyone knows of a good FFL transfer dealer that won't charge me state tax north of Mt Vernon, please let me know!!!

 

[xd2005]

I'll admit I'm new here, but it sure doesn't seem appropriate to publicly discuss ways to circumvent the law. Flame away, but the purchase of out-of-state goods requires the payment of use tax. You can dislike it all you want, but it is what it is. With that in mind, it seems it would be much easier for me to simply have the FFL collect the tax so I don't have to worry about reporting the transaction to the state and paying the appropriate use tax.

 

[not nipsy]

I'd like to read the RCW code that requires that:huh:
That is a private sale between the buyer and the out of state seller.
IMO, the price you paid for that firearm is private information that is none of the FFL's business.
I rarely know the price of what my clients have paid for an item, and I know better than to ask.
All the FFL is doing is providing the transfer service...
Nothing more, nothing less.

Actually, it is the law: <broken link removed>

Is the transfer of a firearm subject to tax?

In an interstate transfer of firearms the Washington gun dealer is required to collect use tax from the Washington resident on the purchase price of the firearm. Use tax is collected from the Washington customer at the time the customer takes possession of the firearm. Use tax is collected on the total selling price, including freight and/or delivery charges and other amounts added, such a an amount for insurance coverage.

So a "use tax" is levied on the purchase price, as well as the cost of shipping, insurance, etc. Whether the FFL fee is also taxable is another question. It appears it is not:

However, neither sales tax nor use tax applies on the service charge for processing the required Federal and State forms and contacting the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) when the fee is stated separately from the selling price of the firearm and freight and/or delivery charges, insurance, etc.

This gets to the question of what an FFL fee really represents. It can't really be called a service - it's required by law, and the FFL dealer adds no value to the transaction. There's nothing taxable there. The law also specifically states above, no tax on fees for running NICS.

So the most reasonable reading of WA state law is that

1. The sale price and shiping costs are taxable
2. The FFL transfer fee is not

I've run this by my own FFL (great guy), and he concurs.

 

[Browning55]

Still a fair amount of confusion among FFL dealers - to be kind about it. I was very recently told I would be charged "sales tax" on the amount of the purchase PLUS any shipping charges PLUS any other charges like credit card fees, etc. PLUS the in-state FFL transfer fee. Charging "use tax" on the transfer is not correct but that's what he said.

Also heard from another shop that a guy inherited some pretty expensive guns from a grandfather that passed away out of state. Strictly an inheritance situation. But the FFL "had to" charge him "sales tax" on the full value of the guns plus the shipping costs. According to that FFL (well known store) there is no exemption for inherited firearms even though there was no purchase involved.

 

[deen_ad]

Still a fair amount of confusion among FFL dealers - to be kind about it. I was very recently told I would be charged "sales tax" on the amount of the purchase PLUS any shipping charges PLUS any other charges like credit card fees, etc. PLUS the in-state FFL transfer fee. Charging "use tax" on the transfer is not correct but that's what he said.

Also heard from another shop that a guy inherited some pretty expensive guns from a grandfather that passed away out of state. Strictly an inheritance situation. But the FFL "had to" charge him "sales tax" on the full value of the guns plus the shipping costs. According to that FFL (well known store) there is no exemption for inherited firearms even though there was no purchase involved.

Charging the "use tax" on the transfer is correct under the law, it's NOT "sales tax". You owe use tax on anything used in the state whether bought in state or out of state. The use tax is the same rate as the sales tax, but the sales tax is paid at the time of purchase, use tax is paid later. But the FFL transfer fee should not have a tax as it's a service.

Charging the use tax on inherited firearms is also correct, no exemption on inherited firearms, again, that's the law. A link to the DOR website stating the law was posted earlier, you might want to take a look at it. You might not agree with the law, but it is the law.

8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

 

[Browning55]

Charging the "use tax" on the transfer is correct under the law, it's NOT "sales tax". You owe use tax on anything used in the state whether bought in state or out of state. The use tax is the same rate as the sales tax, but the sales tax is paid at the time of purchase, use tax is paid later. But the FFL transfer fee should not have a tax as it's a service.

Charging the use tax on inherited firearms is also correct, no exemption on inherited firearms, again, that's the law. A link to the DOR website stating the law was posted earlier, you might want to take a look at it. You might not agree with the law, but it is the law.

----------------------------------------

Agree - everything you said is correct. Hope more FFL dealers in Washington get this straight. With respect to the inheritance aspect, DOR is treating firearms differently than other inherited property - they will probably continue down that road until challenged in court.

 

[CarlMc]

My FFL explained to me that WA state sent letters to all dealers around the country, telling them that when they sold a gun to a WA state resident, they had to charge a WA sales tax and send that to WA state. More or less the letter writers got told that if they really wanted the money, they had to go collect it themselves.

Now since WA state has no authority out of state in this regard, they found a means where they could hinge a business license on collecting "their" tax dollars. Since FFL's have to receive and transfer firearms (in lieu of the guns being shipped directly to a home address as with all other products) they found a means to collect a sales tax. Technically, when we purchase something outside the state, it's the buyer's responsibility to ensure that the proper sales taxes get paid, but that's damn near impossible to enforce, hence the proliferation of internet stores in addition to and/or supplanting mail order. An unenforcable law gives a lot of free reign to all of us hooligans that purchase things on line or by mail and don't bother to pay what we are required by law to the state. Dang you all!

I was told that the FFL even had to collect taxes on shipping and insurance as well, but he didn't bother. I got asked what I paid for the guns, and took down what I recalled paying for them. I won't sweat the accuracy of my recollection in the future.

 

[mauser54]

I have done numerous transfers at my ffl dealer in Deer Park Wa. and in each transfer. The actual transfer is only $25.00 but then he adds $2.00 sales tax. But I have never said anything about it as I always considered it as a part of doing the transfer to obtain the firearm I bought and paid for. Afterall, I figure it's only $2.00.But if he was to charge me sales tax on what I paid for the firearm, then that would be different story and I would balk and complain and contact the Wa. state tax commision and do some real complaining.!

 

[AMT]

Taxes are taxes. We'll pay them to the end. People will argue for and against them but in the end any business owner has to fess-up to the tax man too. Have you ever been through an audit? They find most everything, especially if you didn't pay the proper taxes. If the dealer decides not to charge you and they are caught, it will come out of their profits that quarter/year, etc. Someone will pay and my guess is the business owner doesn't want to pay taxes for every transaction.

Another issue to bring up to people who charge a fee for using your credit card.... I have a "company credit card" and have dealt with the issue with being charged an extra fee to run my credit card. We are given a [small booklet] and I have this saved [insert below] as a file that I share with people who want to charge an extra fee to run a credit card.

It is a violation, as stated, and if the issue is pushed the company, or individual, small or large, can actually lose their priviledge of the processing machine, serivce, etc. I've put a stop to a few companies who have tried to do this to me.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Washington state is just a money collector. They even make you replace a perfectly good set of License Plates for your Car, Truck, Motorcycle or trailer every 7 years just so they can charge you $20.00. Its time to replace some Incumbents. Register to Vote and make a difference.

+100 toss all the bad apples out

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Taxes are taxes. We'll pay them to the end. People will argue for and against them but in the end any business owner has to fess-up to the tax man too. Have you ever been through an audit? They find most everything, especially if you didn't pay the proper taxes. If the dealer decides not to charge you and they are caught, it will come out of their profits that quarter/year, etc. Someone will pay and my guess is the business owner doesn't want to pay taxes for every transaction.

Another issue to bring up to people who charge a fee for using your credit card.... I have a "company credit card" and have dealt with the issue with being charged an extra fee to run my credit card. We are given a [small booklet] and I have this saved [insert below] as a file that I share with people who want to charge an extra fee to run a credit card.

It is a violation, as stated, and if the issue is pushed the company, or individual, small or large, can actually lose their priviledge of the processing machine, serivce, etc. I've put a stop to a few companies who have tried to do this to me.

You don't get it.. businesses are charged all sorts of fees for CC transactions, some of them outrageous, such as for "chargebacks". If they are "prohibited" from adding those transaction fees in a visible manner at the time of the transaction, they just raise prices.. you still pay the fees

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Charging the "use tax" on the transfer is correct under the law, it's NOT "sales tax". You owe use tax on anything used in the state whether bought in state or out of state. The use tax is the same rate as the sales tax, but the sales tax is paid at the time of purchase, use tax is paid later. But the FFL transfer fee should not have a tax as it's a service.

Charging the use tax on inherited firearms is also correct, no exemption on inherited firearms, again, that's the law. A link to the DOR website stating the law was posted earlier, you might want to take a look at it. You might not agree with the law, but it is the law.

8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

The "Feedback Score" is low by 4, not everyone posts it I guess.

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

No private individual in their right mind pays use tax on what they order from other states

 

[kkil004]

Speaking of 'right minds', is Washington the only state to charge this B.S. "use tax" on firearms purchases brought into the state?

 

[AMT]

You don't get it.. businesses are charged all sorts of fees for CC transactions, some of them outrageous, such as for "chargebacks". If they are "prohibited" from adding those transaction fees in a visible manner at the time of the transaction, they just raise prices.. you still pay the fees

I do get it. I understand that they are charged the fees. I understand what you are saying.

I can speculate that you have found an item that you want to purchase. When the person tells you "That'll be $100." You pull out your credit card and they say "I have to charge you 2 (3?) percent to run it...." THAT is what is against the Regulation.

I fully agree with you. I have explained it to the people on the other end of the phone, across the table (at a gun shows), etc. Charge more but tacking on an extra fee is against the regulations and agreement THEY signed with the credit card company.

(Forgot to mention): Per the regulation, giving a discount for cash is not against the agreement. Post on a sign "3 percent discount for cash".

 

[Scott]

I contacted a local FFL to handle the transfer of a pistol I purchased online. This is how the conversation went.

Me: Hi, I will be purchasing a handgun on the internet. Would you be able to do the transfer for me? And what would the fees be?

FFL: Shur, The transfer fee is $30.

Me: OK, great. So $30 out the door?

FFL: yes

Me: Are there any additional fees?

FFL: There is no tax because it's considered a service.

The gun came in today. So, I head over there to do the paper work. Every thing's going good. I like my new gun, the FFL is easy going and knowledgeable. I'm felling really good about the transaction and the FFL. I pay him the $30. He takes a long pause, and proceeds to tell me I have to pay sales tax on the gun.:huh: We engage in a polite debate. AT which point he informs me all FFL's are required to collect sales tax on transfers. The main reason I went with this guy is because he was not charging me tax. So now he's got my gun, my money and is charging me the tax he said did not apply. He seems like a good guy. So I'm gonna give him the benefit of the doubt. And chalk this up to miss communication.
What do you guy's think?

Simple answer for you have your xfers done in Oregon. I do it all the time and a lot cheaper.

 

[AMT]

Simple answer for you have your xfers done in Oregon. I do it all the time and a lot cheaper.

Alright, I'll ask, as I'm sure others may pnder this too..... You buy something and have it shipped to a place in Oregon. You drive over there, show your WA ID, do the paperwork and you walk out with your item?

 

[Scott]

Alright, I'll ask, as I'm sure others may pnder this too..... You buy something and have it shipped to a place in Oregon. You drive over there, show your WA ID, do the paperwork and you walk out with your item?

Yes, I have my firearms shipped to Oregon and pay the small fee's and do paperwork and walkout. It saves a lot of money and when you buy a lot of guns I don't want to pay tax. Most of my guns average of a thousand so I save a lot.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I do get it. I understand that they are charged the fees. I understand what you are saying.

I can speculate that you have found an item that you want to purchase. When the person tells you "That'll be $100." You pull out your credit card and they say "I have to charge you 2 (3?) percent to run it...." THAT is what is against the Regulation.

I fully agree with you. I have explained it to the people on the other end of the phone, across the table (at a gun shows), etc. Charge more but tacking on an extra fee is against the regulations and agreement THEY signed with the credit card company.

(Forgot to mention): Per the regulation, giving a discount for cash is not against the agreement. Post on a sign "3 percent discount for cash".

You sort of get it.. but it's all legal-eze semantics.. the final price you pay is all that matters, right?

 

[AMT]

You sort of get it.. but it's all legal-eze semantics.. the final price you pay is all that matters, right?

If a business in Vancouver wanted to charge you 10 percent sales tax would you pay it? Or how about 12 percent in Seattle? I wouldn't and I can guess that there would be a bunch of people arguing that "they can't charge the extra tax" because it is not legal to charge it. If they say they are going to charge you more money for using a credit card, that it against the same rules and regulations that they said that they would abide by when they signed the agreement with the credit card company.

Just like everyone else I hate paying more for "fees" than I have to, especially if it is against an agreement that they agreed to abide by - to get the machine and benefits of being able to accept credit cards for payments.

Advertise a $100 item for $100. Offer a "cash discount". Don't tell me that I will be charged more if I use my credit card.....