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Ok, I am getting older and my old continuum of force hierarchy is getting less and less viable. In my younger days it was pretty simple; I carried a firearm for lethal force applications and for everything below that I could rely on my mass, strength and skills to control and deescalate a situation. I used to be decently far out on the physical capability bell curve so I never felt like I was leaving myself too much of a gap in capability. Nowadays, however, I am seeing more and more young bucks who would give me pause. It is not so bad that I feel like I am sitting below my comfort threshold, but I am moving in that direction, and I do not foresee moving back up that bell curve in the future.

So this is where the question comes in; what modern tech fits into my comfort threshold for less/non-lethal continuum of force options? Ye Oldyn Day options for things like tasers or pepper spray were decidedly less than optimal from my perspective. My benchmark for effectiveness was me, and being the brain dead and mostly numb monster that I am, the current offerings of the day -at best- merely made me more annoyed and less safe in practice sessions. Dust me with some spicy air freshener? My next grapple/jab/thrust was going to be a bit less accurate but a whole lot more irritated. Hit me with a consumer taser/stun stick or whatever? That tickles, stop it. I was just no all that impressed with anything out there.

But there is *ahem* a decade of improvement since I last gave this market space a good look (we are rounding here, don't ask for details). I am wondering if there is some spicy air fresheners or sparky light shows that would actually give some old b@astard of a bear actual pause to think "yeah, maybe I do actually want to be somewhere else right about now". We have known for ages that there are people resistant to these methods, so surely someone would have figure out a weakness to exploit and then package that exploit into a nice, easy to carry package? I am leery of products that simply state "we have 10 billion more spicy units/shocky sparks/ouch factors than the next leading brand!" I used to eat that stuff for dares when I was young and stupid, I am not sure if the same thing only more is really going to have that much of an impact.

Or maybe I have been thinking about this all wrong for years, and the scale should not be to make the angry, nearly immune old bear go away, but rather make the smelly bum you really don't want to get in a grapple with rethink his aggressive begging. I am not so sure of that, but I could use some convincing if so. What are ya'lls thoughts on the matter? Anything out there that is really good and worth keeping in a pocket? Or should I just get the thing with the biggest number on the package and call it good enough?
 
Pointy, stabby things on long sticks.
I am fairly certain that
a. we consider those "lethal force" on the continuum.
b. Those do not fit in a pocket.

I have the "lethal force" part of the continuum sorted with something that is both more effective and more portable than long pointy sticks (no bonus points for guessing what that is). I was curious if people had good recommendations for things a little further down on that continuum that are better than the stuff from ages ago.
 
Seems your question is just what less lethal options are viable for everyday carry?

TASERs and similar products are cool but they don't do well with bulky clothing, which people here are wearing for 3/5ths of the year. There's a million different brands/blends of OC spray out there but it seems one of the most popular in the gun community right now is POM. I know for the longest time that John from Active Self Protection was endorsing the product. I've given some of it to my family members because its readily affordable and can be purchased in bulk packs, something MACE, Fox Labs, DefTec, and Sabre don't seem to offer.
 
Seems your question is just what less lethal options are viable for everyday carry?

TASERs and similar products are cool but they don't do well with bulky clothing, which people here are wearing for 3/5ths of the year. There's a million different brands/blends of OC spray out there but it seems one of the most popular in the gun community right now is POM. I know for the longest time that John from Active Self Protection was endorsing the product. I've given some of it to my family members because its readily affordable and can be purchased in bulk packs, something MACE, Fox Labs, DefTec, and Sabre don't seem to offer.
Bulk pack is interesting. Gives me a few to play with. I am checking out the site now, but I do not see anything about shelf life. It say it has one, but just to see the print at the bottom of the can. Are we talking a year? More than that years?
 
20231101_130011.jpg

10 bucks , and it's easy to dump in the trash when it's " not appropriate ".
 
Sorry but i roll my eyes when I hear things like "my continueum of force". Makes me think of "maximum tactical strategic force multiplier conitnuim" or other BS like that.
 
A high end (quality) handheld flashlight is the only form of non-lethal that I carry on my person.

I've been OC'd and ran a whole course immediately afterwards. If your opponent has no fight/will in them it works. But if they are dead set on hurting you it will only slow them down or piss them off. Be careful with the "needle effect" and how it can damage someone's eyes if sprayed to closely. Leaves you open to be sued potentially.

I've been tased with LE grade tasers (cartridge type as well as alligator clips). They work but you gotta make sure your prongs spread far enough to make it truly effective. The bad thing with a taser is clothing and other elements can really hinder their effectiveness/contact. And if they are able to get a hand on the wires and rip them out/off then they do nothing.

Non-lethal is great in theory. But all it really does is show your intent to try and deescalate a situation before going to deadly force. At the end of the day situational awareness and avoiding certain things in general is your best option. Verbal judo is second.
 
Sorry but i roll my eyes when I hear things like "my continueum of force". Makes me think of "maximum tactical strategic force multiplier conitnuim" or other BS like that.
You probably roll your eyes at Cooper's color code too.
 
No, that had to do with awareness and the use of lethal force.
Wouldn't force continuum factor into that mindset/awareness as well?

I'm guessing there is a reason it is taught in LE academies….. maybe I'm wrong or misread.
 
Flashlight
Pepper spray
Knife
Gun

We can go back and forth about brands and techniques, but the tools and their order are hard to argue with. Maybe put a good pair of running shoes near the top, depending on your demeaner and situation. I can't run all that fast anymore, so I wear boots. :)
 
What would Popeye do?

If yu'z fine yu'zelf in dis cinch-ē-ation...
200.gif
Swaller'z yu'z sum spinache
200.gif
200.gif
or git yu'z a swell girl...
200.gif
tha spinache wähl all so hep if yu'z needa lif' tha boat anchor...
200.gif

Pretty much the same thing that @Flopsweat said above, I just added some movin' pictoors to illustree-ate it.
 
Flashlight
Pepper spray
Knife
Gun

We can go back and forth about brands and techniques, but the tools and their order are hard to argue with. Maybe put a good pair of running shoes near the top, depending on your demeaner and situation. I can't run all that fast anymore, so I wear boots. :)
Agreed. Although I would argue knife and gun are both lethal and either will produce the same outcome if applied correctly. Although I would much rather keep my distance. Depending on the scenario would dictate whether I go for gun or blade.

I need to find a good way to carry OC. It's not my first choice but it's nice to have as many tools at your disposal as possible.
 
For close interpersonal interaction, there is not much better than 10% OC. And - training in its use. You can use it to deny an entire, albeit limited area to a group of thugs, if needed. Kimber makes a pseudo-pistol which fires OC effectively up to something like 15 feet. Only two shots, but one is often enough.

 

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