Citizens of 19 states and counting pushing for secession.

[dmancornell]

Would it be safe to assume that when the time comes you will pass on taking social security or Medicare? If a state seceeded you would move there?

It's not whether I'll pass it on, but whether that money will even be there by the time I retire. At the current rate of spending, the odds are basically nil.

The whole secession idea is a waste of time, because even if a state seceded, the federal regime will simply murder a bunch of people to reclaim "their" tax base. Just like last time.

 

[Jamie6.5]

I agree. I have never seen such turd kicking and cry baby antics as what has ocurred as a result of the past two POTUS elections.

Then either you weren't around after 2000, or you were too busy with other things, like Mario Bros maybe?
.
After 2000, the liberals morphed into the progressives and were still carrying their rage, and managed to get Geo. Soros to fund it, going into '04 and '06.

Meanwhile, in the last 4 years obama has doubled down on everything Bush did, including doubling my kids' debt., and you are here wearing your obama shirt and championing his causes, and complaining because conservatives don't like the hard left turn we took in the last 4 years.

A clue would be good. If you can find one you should buy it!

 

[iamme]

When we the people became we the .Gov and those who give us the biggest kickbacks, this became necessary

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I agree. I have never seen such turd kicking and cry baby antics as what has ocurred as a result of the past two POTUS elections.

You must have missed the two elections before that one then

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Implying seceding states would have to continue operating the federally mandated entitlement programs that results in their net intake, those entitlement programs being a primary reason driving secessionist sentiment.

As usual, statist math is devoid of all logic.

Wrong, they receive more tax dollars than theirr state generates period and entitlement programs do NOT make up more than 50% of their budgets. That is simple math. The GNP of those states cannot maintain their infrastructure without federal aid. With or without "entitlement" programs. These states would have to enact massive taxes on their citizens to maintain their national guards alone. Much less maintain roads, power grids, water systems, schools (luckily they seem to have little interest in educating their kids anyway). They would reach third world status within two years.

 

[dmancornell]

Wrong, they receive more tax dollars than theirr state generates period and entitlement programs do NOT make up more than 50% of their budgets. That is simple math. The GNP of those states cannot maintain their infrastructure without federal aid. With or without "entitlement" programs. These states would have to enact massive taxes on their citizens to maintain their national guards alone. Much less maintain roads, power grids, water systems, schools (luckily they seem to have little interest in educating their kids anyway). They would reach third world status within two years.

Why would seceding states would need an enormous national guard sized to assist the federal army in their overseas wars of waste? The only thing they have to worry about is the federal regime invading. Certainly a real threat, but a hopeless fight regardless. Ditch the NG, it's a waste.

Also your "simple math" is garbage, the sole reason they take in tax dollars is because the federal government forced them to provide entitlement programs, medicare/medicaid being the main culprits. It's called economies of scale, smaller communities forced to provide the same bloated, overpriced "care" that the feds mandate will have a higher cost per person as larger cities.

As for roads other than interstates, power/water and schools, all those things are state/city funded anyways, so that's all garbage as well.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Wrong, they receive more tax dollars than theirr state generates period and entitlement programs do NOT make up more than 50% of their budgets. That is simple math. The GNP of those states cannot maintain their infrastructure without federal aid. With or without "entitlement" programs. These states would have to enact massive taxes on their citizens to maintain their national guards alone. Much less maintain roads, power grids, water systems, schools (luckily they seem to have little interest in educating their kids anyway). They would reach third world status within two years.

So who says they have to do without federal funds? Why not charge the feds for use of their roads, and ports and refinery facilities.

They could easily charge the feds an excise tax, or levy tariffs for trade, and freight just passing through.
Texas is big enough that few freight companies wouldn't see the sense in paying the tax, rather than the fuel and time necessary to go around.

Then there's the energy picture, and Texas' refinery capabilities. What portion of America's refinery capability is located on Texas soil?
Then there's Louisiana's petition as well.
Make LA and TX one country, and the shipping industry would be beholdin' big time.

 

[Trlsmn]

Wrong, they receive more tax dollars than theirr state generates period and entitlement programs do NOT make up more than 50% of their budgets. That is simple math. The GNP of those states cannot maintain their infrastructure without federal aid. With or without "entitlement" programs. These states would have to enact massive taxes on their citizens to maintain their national guards alone. Much less maintain roads, power grids, water systems, schools (luckily they seem to have little interest in educating their kids anyway). They would reach third world status within two years.

Thank you for highlighting the problem, if your household spends more money than it generates what happens to your household?

There are two solutions, one generate more revenue, two cut expenses. I don't want to work any harder and since I am a revenue generator and should have the choice of what to do with money I alone have earned, I vote to cut expenses.

 

[asiparks]

And the states that sucede will be, of course, governed responsibly by unimpeachable leaders who will hold the interests of the state and its people well above that of their own ....

Yeah. That'll work...

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

So who says they have to do without federal funds? Why not charge the feds for use of their roads, and ports and refinery facilities.

They could easily charge the feds an excise tax, or levy tariffs for trade, and freight just passing through.
Texas is big enough that few freight companies wouldn't see the sense in paying the tax, rather than the fuel and time necessary to go around.

Then there's the energy picture, and Texas' refinery capabilities. What portion of America's refinery capability is located on Texas soil?
Then there's Louisiana's petition as well.
Make LA and TX one country, and the shipping industry would be beholdin' big time.

And just why do you think the remaining states would have any need of those facilities and roads? Especially why would they pay you for them? These states produce nothing we cannot get cheaper from Brazil or Canada.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Why would seceding states would need an enormous national guard sized to assist the federal army in their overseas wars of waste? The only thing they have to worry about is the federal regime invading. Certainly a real threat, but a hopeless fight regardless. Ditch the NG, it's a waste.

Also your "simple math" is garbage, the sole reason they take in tax dollars is because the federal government forced them to provide entitlement programs, medicare/medicaid being the main culprits. It's called economies of scale, smaller communities forced to provide the same bloated, overpriced "care" that the feds mandate will have a higher cost per person as larger cities.

As for roads other than interstates, power/water and schools, all those things are state/city funded anyways, so that's all garbage as well.

Wrong again. These states ARE NOT producing enough funds to pay for their school or roads. They are heavily subsidized by federal dollars. Come back into the conversation once you have some knowledge.

As for the national Guard, you think you will be able to maintain a free society without one? Or do you think it would devolve into a feudal warlord state quite quickly. Actually, it will most likely revert almost immediately to corporatocracy .

 

[dmancornell]

Wrong again. These states ARE NOT producing enough funds to pay for their school or roads. They are heavily subsidized by federal dollars. Come back into the conversation once you have some knowledge.

As for the national Guard, you think you will be able to maintain a free society without one? Or do you think it would devolve into a feudal warlord state quite quickly. Actually, it will most likely revert almost immediately to corporatocracy .

Hah, the statist pretends to be a wonk. Once schools are removed from federal oversight they will not cost nearly as much. Cost of education per student started to skyrocket exactly when the feds started regulation. As for roads, the highway bill is essentially a massive bribe to states to buy compliance on other costly federal regulations. States ought to ditch the feds and elect to fund roads, as they see fit.

LOL @ corporatocracy, implying the federal government isn't the main reason we have state-driven corporatism today. Removing the cancer will solve the problem.

 

[asiparks]

Wrong again. These states ARE NOT producing enough funds to pay for their school or roads. They are heavily subsidized by federal dollars. Come back into the conversation once you have some knowledge.

As for the national Guard, you think you will be able to maintain a free society without one? Or do you think it would devolve into a feudal warlord state quite quickly. Actually, it will most likely revert almost immediately to corporatocracy .

Doubtless, In Virginia the same shining lights that run Massey / Alpha etc, would end up in a controlling role...citizens would become indentured servants.
Foxconn, but with americans.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Hah, the statist pretends to be a wonk. Once schools are removed from federal oversight they will not cost nearly as much. Cost of education per student started to skyrocket exactly when the feds started regulation. As for roads, the highway bill is essentially a massive bribe to states to buy compliance on other costly federal regulations. States ought to ditch the feds and elect to fund roads, as they see fit.

LOL @ corporatocracy, implying the federal government isn't the main reason we have state-driven corporatism today. Removing the cancer will solve the problem.

Really? what cost does government funding add to running a school? Just how low do you plan on dropping teacher's pay or how many kids do you plan to crowd into a classroom. It seems your ideal state will not only be poor, but uneducated as well.

As for your claim of federal corporatism, just wait until you see what it is like when they do not have to work through a federal government. I am betting you will just love the lead in your water, the coal dust clogging your lungs, and the copany script you start being paid with.

 

[dmancornell]

Really? what cost does government funding add to running a school? Just how low do you plan on dropping teacher's pay or how many kids do you plan to crowd into a classroom. It seems your ideal state will not only be poor, but uneducated as well.

Hah, teacher's pay? More stupid emotionalism.

The average public school has as many administrators as teachers. US schools fail miserably against other countries on just about every standardized test available even though we spend double as much. No European country has its schools run by the national government, and their children soundly thrash American K-12 kids.

Is it a surprise that tertiary education, the only part of US education that is not heavily regulated by the federal government, is the only schooling we have worth a damn?

As for your claim of federal corporatism, just wait until you see what it is like when they do not have to work through a federal government. I am betting you will just love the lead in your water, the coal dust clogging your lungs, and the copany script you start being paid with.

More fearmongering and propaganda. It's as if without a massive murder-theft regime threatening them with fines, private businesses would refuse to provide clean water to paying customers. You leftists love sneering at private citizens as if they are too stupid to take morality into account when spending their money.

By the way, I refuse to buy GM or Chevy cars because they accepted a bailout. See, we are smart enough to make decisions.

 

[carracer]

If all of the states secede, would it remain the same?

 

[bigboy67]

No European country has its schools run by the national government, and their children soundly thrash American K-12 kids.

You mean all those socialist European countries that I constantly hear righties complain about America becoming? Lol, this whole left and right thing is the real thing choking our country.

In order to support guns, I also have to support religious rhetoric and socially regressive thinking?

In order to support women's rights I have to have the government involved in every part of my life and support those unwilling to support themselves?

There has got to be a better way, I hope so anyways. People in this country act like everything is red or blue, Dem or Pub, Fox or NBC, right or wrong. The reasonable citizens of other countries seem to have caught on quicker than us...

I have voted for Bush and Obama, so you can keep that lefty bullbubblegum to yourselves too, I have no allegiance. Some of you, however, just are just seething with hatred against "the other side"

 

[dmancornell]

I have voted for Bush and Obama, so you can keep that lefty bullbubblegum to yourselves too, I have no allegiance. Some of you, however, just are just seething with hatred against "the other side"

Don't blame me, I voted libertarian.

 

[bigboy67]

Don't blame me, I voted libertarian.

Problem is. in a two party system, voting libertarian is the same as not voting at all.

That's not a dig against your vote either, it's against the system

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Hah, teacher's pay? More stupid emotionalism.

The average public school has as many administrators as teachers. US schools fail miserably against other countries on just about every standardized test available even though we spend double as much. No European country has its schools run by the national government, and their children soundly thrash American K-12 kids.

Is it a surprise that tertiary education, the only part of US education that is not heavily regulated by the federal government, is the only schooling we have worth a damn?



More fearmongering and propaganda. It's as if without a massive murder-theft regime threatening them with fines, private businesses would refuse to provide clean water to paying customers. You leftists love sneering at private citizens as if they are too stupid to take morality into account when spending their money.

By the way, I refuse to buy GM or Chevy cars because they accepted a bailout. See, we are smart enough to make decisions.

You seem to love being wrong and pontificating your own ignorance. Actually, almost all modernized countries have Government run school systems. Also, no, schools DO NOT have as many administrators as teachers. That is a lie. And the average school teacher salary only seems decent when they add the multi-million dollar salaries of college level coaches.

As for the corporations good will to it's locals, I do not think fear mongering is needed. You can just look at history in this country and how they behave with their over-seas divisions. You can even just look at how the coal mines in WV are currently treating the people that live near them. I guess you would never do that though since the information would not support your own preconceived (most likely Rush generated) opinions. (Now is the part where you claim to never listen to right wing talking heads.)