Can Certain Dealers Buy MGs Without Delay?

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One of my son's friends wants to sell a transferable full-auto Mac 10 (.45 acp). Son swears that certain dealers are licensed to buy outright (with proper paperwork), bypassing the standard ATF stamp delay. Is there such a thing? Is that known as a Class III dealer? Guy with the gun lives in Portland area and I agreed to ask for local info here in this forum. Appreciate any leads/info I can pass along. Thanks in advance.
 
From the interwebs:

One does not need to obtain a “Class III” weapons license to own. In fact there really is no such thing as a class III NFA weapons license. When a Title 1 FFL dealer pays what is known as a Special Occupation Tax, he/she then becomes a SOT that can then deal in NFA/Title 2 weapons. SOTs have several classes too and they are based on the type of FFL license you currently hold. The term Class 3 comes from when a normal Type 1 (standard dealer) FFL holder pays his SOT tax. He becomes a Type 3 SOT hence the term Class 3.


Transferring ownership of an NFA weapon – All NFA weapons regardless of category (machineguns, silencers, etc.) are controlled during their transfer from one person/entity to another. These weapons transfer to another entity on what is called ATF tax forms. Each ownership transfer MUST be approved by the ATF before the transfer takes place. This approval takes sometimes many months. Generally individual transfer is approved in 3-4 months, dealer to dealer in 3-4 weeks. When the ATF approves the transfer, they cancel a tax stamp and this is why you sometimes hear some say class 3 stamp. Transfers from/to individuals require a one time $200 tax stamp to be paid for EACH transfer (AOWs require just a $5 stamp). These are considered tax paid transfers and usually are on an ATF form 4. Dealers can transfer to other dealers using a tax free Form 3.



Dealers who are a Class-1FFL with an Type-3 SOT don’t get to “bypass” anything as far as paperwork and (albeit a shorter) delay is concerned, they just don’t have to pay the $200 tax stamp to take possession of an NFA regulated item BECAUSE they’ve paid the SOT.
 

OregonArmsAmmo

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Dealers who are a Class-1FFL with an Type-3 SOT don’t get to “bypass” anything as far as paperwork and (albeit a shorter) delay is concerned, they just don’t have to pay the $200 tax stamp to take possession of an NFA regulated item BECAUSE they’ve paid the SOT.
This is mostly accurate, the $200 fee still has to be paid If the Firearm has been transferred to an unlicensed person on a form 4. A Form 3 tax exempt transfer is only for dealer to dealer transfers. The form 4 will be much quicker going to a dealer than an individual.
 

OregonArmsAmmo

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That is what I read too. Do you have any ideas on the wait times between an FFL/SOT to FFL on Form 4? (I have a machine-gun coming into our FFL, hopefully, soon.)

Thanks much.
Are you an SOT?

FFL/SOT to FFL/SOT should be on a form 3 and take a week or so

Private / unlicensed individual to FFL/SOT on form 4 is usually 30-90 days

If it's FFL/SOT to just a regular FFL i'm not sure if it would be any quicker than going to a regular person. I honestly have no Idea in this scenario but in the NFA world a FFL without a SOT is an considered "unlicensed" just like a regular person and cant deal in NFA items. I'm guessing it would also matter if your FFL is an individual or a company.

The ATF might provide some professional courtesy for an FFL without an SOT and speed it up but my guess is that wouldn't be likely.

Truth be told it would have been a lot easier if you got an SOT then acquired the machine gun
 
The company is licensed 01FFL, but does not have a SOT. We can deal in any NFA item, except Destructive Devices,* but since it is tax paid, it doesn't make much financial sense on a regular basis. From what I've read on an NFA-specific forum, Form 4 to 01FFL isn't as fast as Form 3 as that is essentially automated, but that it should be much faster than to individual because it is one FFL licensee to another. I just don't have a feel for how much shorter.

* ATF description of 01FFL is: Dealer in Firearms Other than Destructive Devices (Includes: rifles, shotguns, pistols, revolvers, gunsmith activities, and National Firearms Act (NFA) weapons)
 

CamoDeafie

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Related to this question... what about the Post 1986 Machine Gun class? Believe FOPA 86's Hughes Amendment says these are prohibited from ownership by unlicensed civilian persons, unless LEO/LEA/Military? Clarify?

Edit. Is this a situation where a SOT is required if not a LEO/LEA/military agency?
 
Related to this question... what about the Post 1986 Machine Gun class? Believe FOPA 86's Hughes Amendment says these are prohibited from ownership by unlicensed civilian persons, unless LEO/LEA/Military? Clarify?

Edit. Is this a situation where a SOT is required if not a LEO/LEA/military agency?
Posties, as far as I know, can only be owned by FFL/SOTs, actual law enforcement agencies, and the military. Private individuals and 01FFLs without the SOT addition cannot. Fully transferable, pre-May 1986 machine-guns can be possessed by 01FFLs and private citizens, provided their is no state-level law preventing them.
 
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One of my son's friends wants to sell a transferable full-auto Mac 10 (.45 acp). Son swears that certain dealers are licensed to buy outright (with proper paperwork), bypassing the standard ATF stamp delay. Is there such a thing? Is that known as a Class III dealer? Guy with the gun lives in Portland area and I agreed to ask for local info here in this forum. Appreciate any leads/info I can pass along. Thanks in advance.
A transfer from an unlicensed individual to a dealer uses the exact same process (a tax paid Form 4) and does not bypass the stamp. In theory it should go faster as there is no requirement for the FBI to check finger print cards, but in our personal experience as of the last year, that has not been the case. Last one took 255 days on an M11/9.
You friend may be confused with dealer (or manufacturer) to dealer (or manufacturer) transfers, where both have an SOT. An SOT (Special Occupational Tax) is a yearly tax that can be paid by dealers and manufacturers that exempts them from paying the $200 transfer tax on each NFA transfer. These are tax exempt transfers one on a Form 3. These are currently running very fast, and we have experience approvals in as fast as 6 hours.
 
I just today received an email saying they shipped my MG, which according to UPS should be here Friday. That means the Form 4 between their FFL to mine was approved in less than a week. Not bad, considering I have had NFA transfers between a dealer to our family trust take well over a year.
 
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I just today received an email saying they shipped my MG, which according to UPS should be here Friday. That means the Form 4 between their FFL to mine was approved in less than a week. Not bad, considering I have had NFA transfers between a dealer to our family trust take well over a year.
You don't see tax paid FFL to FFL transfers very often. Were you purchasing from a dealer who gave up their SOT?
 
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Posties, as far as I know, can only be owned by FFL/SOTs, actual law enforcement agencies, and the military. Private individuals and 01FFLs without the SOT addition cannot. Fully transferable, pre-May 1986 machine-guns can be possessed by 01FFLs and private citizens, provided their is no state-level law preventing them.
There's also a few other cases where post samples can be owned that's not well know about. Some years ago, an exemption was put in place under the Atomic Energy Act. for Nuclear Regulatory Commission contractors allowing them to import/purchase/posses post sample machineguns. These are basically contractors guarding nuke facilities such as power plants.
Another case would be museums that have received accreditation and receive their funding from the Government. An example would be the UDT SEAL museum in Florida. These museums can also accept unregistered machinegun donations and register them on an ATF From 10. Apparently this accreditation is very very difficult to get these days.
Another cases I've seen was people with an exemption letter. One example I've personally seen was Paris Theodore. Paris started several companies including Seventrees Ltd and Armament Systems Procedures Corporation (ASP). I got to meet his son a few years ago at show in Arizona and he showed me his dad's ATF exemption letter. He wouldn't let me make a copy, but essentially it read something like:

To Whom it may concern,

Paris Theodore is hereby exempt from all provisions on the Gun Control Act (1968). and the National Firearms Act (1934).

Sincerely
Director BATF

This was apparently issued as part of his work manufacturing classified concealment weapons for the CIA.
 
You don't see tax paid FFL to FFL transfers very often. Were you purchasing from a dealer who gave up their SOT?
No. The dealer is FFL/SOT. I'm licensed 01 FFL, presently, though will eventually bother with SOT status. The email referenced above was in error; it was sent by a total, irredeemable idiot who confused two different orders, and gave me false hope. As of this writing, early June 2020, the machine-gun I bought in October 2019, transferring on Form 4 between two 01FFLs, is still pending. Though hope springs eternal; the last I read we should be nearing the end of the wait. The Lage upper is already here and ready to roll. :D

I'mLagging.jpg
 

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