Brass cleaning "issue"

[6gunslinger]

hello I'm new to the forums,

I recently started reloading and in an effort to save cash I tried that old NRA brass cleaning solution that includes submerging your cases in vinegar. After submerging the brass in the vinegar solution I immediately tumbled 1/3 of the cases in corn cob media. I discovered after submerging them in vinegar I should have rinsed them thoroughly.

Long story short most of my cases look fine but some have a reddish hue to them that I'm led to believe could be de-zincing caused by the vinegar bath.

Are these cases done for? Are the ones with lesser red hue okay to reload? Are the worst looking ones okay to reload? I don't want to blow my face off but I also don't want to ditch my shells. I'll be posting photos as soon as I can.

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[6gunslinger]

I can't post photos with out doing a bunch of computer stuff since my devices are no longer compatible, oh well. At any rate, if any one has any experience with this odd red pigmentation on their cases please weigh in.

 

[jordanka16]

The red is zinc being removed from the brass, acetic acid will do that. If you want to use vinegar about 15-30 minutes tops is all they should be in there for.

If they have no red on them they are fine, a splotch or two is probably fine as well. Lots of red I would toss them out.

I would just skip the vinegar bath in the future, the corn cob or walnut will clean then enough to load, no need to soak them. You might also try citric acid, it seems to be gentler to brass.

Or you could join those of us that tumble in SS media, then they will look brand new

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Also consider the operating pressure.

If it's pistol brass I'd be more inclined to keep it, and if it's rifle brass I'd be more inclined to scrap it.

 

[DizzyJ]

Brass is cheap compared to your face.

Just say'n.

 

[Caveman Jim]

This is one I've not heard about since I'm relatively new to reloading also (4 years).
Good stuff here for the newbies to learn.

 

[ageingstudent]

It usually takes a long time for significant damage to occur to brass due to vinegar (acetic acid) exposure. If we are talking a few days on pistol brass here I would swish them around in your solution but slightly diluted again to clean the surface evenly (because without pitting that's what you are seeing is leftover acid + oxygen reacting on the surface which is not the end). Rinse well with a few drops dishsoap/hot water then rinse with just hot water really well. Dry. Put in dry tumbler with some added brass polish without ammonia(I'm partial to Cabela's it smells nice) and run it for a couple hours. If your tumbling media is good they should come out beautiful. I had some brass come out pinkish/red because of too strong of an acid mix and a poor rinse job before and recleaned and rerinsed it with a good polish to neutralize the surface and it's fine now. Still using it safely. If it's not pitted and destroyed looking like it's been laying in acid since 1935 it should be fine. YMMV USE YOUR BEST JUDGEMENT.

Edit idea--> Also, if you knew someone near where you live with a wet tumbler and stainless pins an hour in that tumbler with the pins and tumbling solution and a good rinse will completly clean the surface.

M

 

[MrElectric03]

When in doubt, throw em out.

 

[6gunslinger]

The red is zinc being removed from the brass, acetic acid will do that. If you want to use vinegar about 15-30 minutes tops is all they should be in there for...
If they have no red on them they are fine, a splotch or two is probably fine as well. Lots of red I would toss them out...I would just skip the vinegar bath in the future, the corn cob or walnut will clean then enough to load, no need to soak them. You might also try citric acid, it seems to be gentler to brass.

Yes I think I will skip the vinegar in the future, and the were only in the vinegar solution for about 10 minutes max however I let them air dry with out rinsing. I'm hesitant to use SS media for some reason. steel on brass and plastic tumbler bowl. but if it makes em shiny it may be worth it.

 

[6gunslinger]

It usually takes a long time for significant damage to occur to brass due to vinegar (acetic acid) exposure...without pitting that's what you are seeing is leftover acid + oxygen reacting on the surface which is not the end...Put in dry tumbler with some added brass polish without ammonia(I'm partial to Cabela's it smells nice) and run it for a couple hours. If your tumbling media is good they should come out beautiful. I had some brass come out pinkish/red because of too strong of an acid mix and a poor rinse job before and recleaned and rerinsed...and it's fine now. Still using it safely. If it's not pitted and destroyed looking like it's been laying in acid since 1935 it should be fine.

I think is what I will do, go through em all, pick out the pinkish ones and tumble them again. others are saying throw them out, well I will i think if the pink doesn't polish out. I suspected that it was just surface de zinc and from what your saying it may be. also someone else said, "it depends on pressure, if they're pistol loads should be ok." I was planning to load these things hot as hell and I'm shooting them out of a lever gun, perhaps If they were pistol cartridges I would just load the pink ones light and try my luck. Either way I think I've heard enough. Thanks for the input everyone. Making me glad I joined this forum already.

 

[Mikej]

I find it hard to believe that any of that brass had it's molecular makeup rearranged because it sat in vinegar for 10 minutes? Think of how many times brass get fired and reloaded without splitting? How could brass stand being at forest shooting spots laying out in the weather for months?

You didn't say what caliber? If it's handgun run 'em. If the discolored split, chuck 'em all.

 

[6gunslinger]

I find it hard to believe that any of that brass had it's molecular makeup rearranged because it sat in vinegar for 10 minutes? Think of how many times brass get fired and reloaded without splitting?

You didn't say what caliber? If it's handgun run 'em. If the discolored split, chuck 'em all.

I find it hard to believe that any of that brass had it's molecular makeup rearranged because it sat in vinegar for 10 minutes? Think of how many times brass get fired and reloaded without splitting? How could brass stand being at forest shooting spots laying out in the weather for months?

You didn't say what caliber? If it's handgun run 'em. If the discolored split, chuck 'em all.

.44 magnum and apparently the vinegar can mess them up but yeah I feel similarly in that surely they are not terribly messed up. Still I'd rather be safe then sorry even if means an early retirement for a few shells

 

[ageingstudent]

.44 magnum and apparently the vinegar can mess them up but yeah I feel similarly in that surely they are not terribly messed up. Still I'd rather be safe then sorry even if means an early retirement for a few shells

Just get them good and rinsed and clean this time so that there isn't any residual acid acting on the surface of the brass. You could even add a few drops of bleach in with dish soap and wash the brass before final rinsing to neutralize the residual acid. In the short term that residual acid it isn't hurting anything or changing the properties of your brass deep inside, although you do want to get it off there and stop that reaction. As far as surface damage...consider that tumbling in something harsh like walnut shells or stainless media removes far more brass molecules mechanically from the surface in the short time period we are talking about here. Pics would certainly help but from your description I think you're okay if you rectify it with haste. If there's no visible pitting you should be fine IMOP. Just give them a darn good inspection after and anything that you aren't comfortable with just chuck it in the recycle. Going off your description I don't think you damaged it deeply .

 

[6gunslinger]

for sure, baking soda is another option to neutralize the acid. They've been rinsed and dry for a while at this point. If one blows up/splits or whatever I'll post it.

 

[gmerkt]

If cartridge brass lays out in the weather/sun for a long time, it will oxidize and turn brown. Then when washed in one of the chemical case cleaners like Birchwood-Casey (mild solution of phosphoric acid), the result will be pink. In the past I've used some of these several loadings of .30-06 without issues. The discoloration doesn't go deep. You can take a file to one and see yellow right away. In my own experience, the pink ones never suffered any more embrittlement (such as evidenced by mouth splits, neck splits, etc) than some "normal" golden cases.

I've also seen some cases that were left in concentrations of some kind of acid too long and these turned very light yellow. I was leery of these yet never had any failures. I fired them 4X in M1 Rifle, then scrapped, no issues.

But as others have said, cartridge cases aren't that expensive so scrapping any that you find questionable wouldn't be tragic. I've been a Cheap Charlie about cartridge brass for most of my hand loading experience but you don't have to be.

 

[Mooseman]

I've used vinegar for a few moments to remove green corrosion from brass , then rinse in hot soapy water , clear water and dry before tumbling in walnut media with Nu-finish polish (NON-Ammonia). Then i inspect the brass and decide if its safe to load or goes in the recycle /melt bucket.
I recently got into wet tumbling with a thumblers tumbler, SS pins, Lemishine(citric acid) , dawn soap, and after 45 minutes change to clear distilled water, for 15 minutes , then add some liquid car wash and wax for the final tumble about 15-30 minutes.
The brass comes out like new factory brass and even though its more labor intense , it doesn't take hours to do like walnut media.
Decap the brass with a universal decap die before wet tumbling and the primer pockets get Clean !
Rich

 

[6gunslinger]

I Actually tested the vinegar bath on a piece of brass rod I had laying around and it didn't seem to do anything. Really I think I may just be being paranoid however, I also kind of don't know what I'm doing.

Then i inspect the brass and decide if its safe to load or goes in the recycle /melt bucket.

I'm curious Mooseman, what do you do with your melted brass? and how do you melt it? I was thinking of making a foundry out of a propane tank at some point. Getting a bit off topic but hopefully people don't mind.

 

[Mooseman]

I Actually tested the vinegar bath on a piece of brass rod I had laying around and it didn't seem to do anything. Really I think I may just be being paranoid however, I also kind of don't know what I'm doing.
I'm curious Mooseman, what do you do with your melted brass? and how do you melt it? I was thinking of making a foundry out of a propane tank at some point. Getting a bit off topic but hopefully people don't mind.

Propane fired foundry and a crucible...plans are online. I can cast parts or knife guards etc. or sell the stuff at the scrap yard if i need cash !

 

[DizzyJ]

I Actually tested the vinegar bath on a piece of brass rod I had laying around and it didn't seem to do anything. Really I think I may just be being paranoid however, I also kind of don't know what I'm doing.
I'm curious Mooseman, what do you do with your melted brass? and how do you melt it? I was thinking of making a foundry out of a propane tank at some point. Getting a bit off topic but hopefully people don't mind.

Is the brass rod made up of the same mixture of metals as the brass casings though?

 

[bbbass]

I used vinegar to remove lead fouling from a stainless steel barrel when it wouldn't come out any other way. Rinsed and worked it over with Hoppes after... neat trick!