Black talon ammo isn't illegal is it?

[TTSX]

PAR1 – Heizer Defense

Posts about PAR1 written by heizerdefense

heizerdefense.com

That gun is precisely why I said "worth a darn" instead of "at all"

Though I'm curious how those would perform. Would they even break the sound barrier or just make a big fireball....?

 

[CamoDeafie]

That gun is precisely why I said "worth a darn" instead of "at all"

Though I'm curious how those would perform. Would they even break the sound barrier or just make a big fireball....?

1400 fps... you tell me?

 

[The Heretic]

It's still legal, it's just that Winchester voluntarily took it off the market after a fair amount of negative publicity. Ammo is quite expensive ($100 for 20 rounds of pistol loads etc.) Interesting rounds, but sure not worth the lofty prices they go for, and in this sue happy country we live in, probably not worth the litigation that could follow if used in self defense.

This.

It was used by a guy when he shot up a lawyer's office back in the 80s(IIRC that was the time period?). Lots of BS about it, including that is was Teflon coated AP (it isn't). So Winchester pulled it off the market (more or less).

I bought a case (500) of it because at the time I had tested it in a G21 against other premium defensive ammo, and it worked the best IMO (at the time). A couple years ago I sold most of it to a collector/reseller for a decent price - I am sure he turned around and sold individual boxes for a profit.

Today's Winchester SXT/et. al. bullets are basically an improvement on the Black Talon without (usually) the black coating. The Bonded SXT (AKA Ranger, it can be had in white box for much less and that is what much of my .40 ammo is) is my favorite pistol bullet for defensive use in any caliber.

Anybody who tells you that ammo is illegal for someone to possess either doesn't know their anal orifice from a hole in the ground, is just repeating some BS they heard, and/or they are trying to pull some wool over your eyes. Lots of ignorance and rumors out there.

 

[TTSX]

1400 fps... you tell me?

Is that what independent Chrono tests show or what the manufacturer says?

Either way, that pretty well proves the point that 5.7 and 5.56 are not the same, especially in CC size weapons. I'm not sure a 5.56 at 1400 is going to defeat much armor, though I'd like to see the video of it doing so

 

[The Heretic]

How's that different from 5.56, or really, any other rifle round? The 5.7 is a rifle, not pistol caliber, if one looks at what firearm was first to use it (FN P90)

Correct, and it is classified as such.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Is that what independent Chrono tests show or what the manufacturer says?

Either way, that pretty well proves the point that 5.7 and 5.56 are not the same, especially in CC size weapons. I'm not sure a 5.56 at 1400 is going to defeat much armor, though I'd like to see the video of it doing so

A .22WMR goes 1500 fps from a handgun barrel it seems.

Actual testing seem to indicate that from a handgun barrel, the 5.7 doesn't penetrate 3A body armor, and some Level 2 or 2A...

 

[ar man]

They still make similar round under a different name under the Winchester Ranger or PDX series ammunition. So I would say no shoot it.

 

[Cerberus Group]

It's still being made under a different name and color.

It's now either SXT or Ranger-T

Different color, same talons...

 

[TTSX]

Hey guys, is it still in production? Maybe they can call it ranger SXT...

 

[titsonritz]

Whoever told you it's illegal is a moron and a fudd

^^^Pretty much this.

BT got a bad rep thanks to the fake news MSM and anti-2A zealots. It is clueless fudds like this that continue to perpetuate the BS myth. Bottom line, BT are old bullet tech and nothing special, there are better choices available today.

ETA:
https://blog.refactortactical.com/blog/winchester-black-talon-ammunition/

Are Black Talon Bullets Illegal

Black Talon bullets are not inherently illegal in the United States. Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s.

In 1993, the Black Talon bullet gained notoriety after it was used by a gunman in a mass shooting in a California law office. The publicity around the shooting led to some jurisdictions restricting the use of Black Talon bullets, but they were not banned outright.

Today, Black Talon bullets are no longer manufactured or sold by Winchester, but similar types of hollow-point bullets are still widely available and legal for civilian use in the United States.

 

[Knobgoblin]

" maybe this wouldn't have happened if she wasn't dressed like that "

 

[titsonritz]

It's still being made under a different name and color.

It's now either SXT or Ranger-T

Different color, same talons...

View attachment 1384267

The original Black Talon was not bonded like the other two which are improvements sans the scary name and evil black color.

 

[gmerkt]

Today's Winchester SXT/et. al. bullets are basically an improvement on the Black Talon without (usually) the black coating.

The original Black Talon was not bonded like the other two which are improvements sans the scary name and evil black color.

Yes, there are more lethal bullets made now than Black Talon was. Like some of the Lehigh bullets. Just the other day, I noticed this one at Midway:

Underwood Ammo 45 Colt (Long Colt) 220 Grain Lehigh Maximum Expansion

While taking advantage of state of the art testing equipment, this high performance ammunition by Underwood is field tested using popular, real firearms...

www.midwayusa.com

Now, there is a bullet that peels way back.

"Lead Free" bullets, ha ha, great for the environment but not so great to get shot by one. Or any bullet, for that matter.

 

[Cerberus Group]

The original Black Talon was not bonded like the other two which are improvements sans the scary name and evil black color.

The pic I posted is of a SXT round I shot into ballistic gel, during the time where they were having jacket separation issues...as can be seen in the photo.

 

[STEELE]

Black Talon, black humor, black cats, black moods, black guns, black luck, black, black, black! All BAD! I have a black truck, so guess I'm bad too!
So...BAD black bullets, black guns. When the politicians put a name on something, such as ASSAULT WEAPON, it must be bad too. Why isn't the person who commits a crime with a weapon "BAD"? The Bad person assaults, gets arrested and is deemed to be a societal victim, released with no bond and coddled in the "justice" system, only to re-offend, and go around again. In the meantime, YOU, ME...the taxpayer, good citizen, soldier, sailor or cop, get the joy of putting up with a very broken system. Biden is supporting a "deeper" background check for weapon purchases. How many criminals and gang-bangers are going to buy a weapon over the counter? ZERO! Perhaps there should be a law that only bad guys need to get a background check? I know I'm preaching to the choir, but it's time to reassess our political system and dump the real problem: Left-wing, emotionally driven, self promoting politicians who only feather their own nests at the expense of our NATION, They all swear to abide and support our CONSTITUTION, and spend their terms destroying it. The Sheeple are being cheated by politicians, the Media, the courts and by their own stupidity. STOP VOTING FOR ASSAULTING POLITICIANS! Wish that made me feel better, but it didn't...

 

[CZP07]

If you just touch the tip you will die !

Thats something my exes mother told her

 

[crstrode]

I have a buddy.... he owns a bunch of black talon ammo, but was recently told (with all certainty by an FFL) that it was banned and illegal?

I thought it was just that the antis made a big stink about it so they stopped making it, but that it was still legal to possess/sell/buy. Then winchester basically put out the exact same ammo without the speciaized coating and all has been good ever since.

Am I misinformed?

Asking for a friend.....

That "buddy", or "friend", of yours is, indeed, uninformed, misinformed, and likely an unabashed troll.


Replying for myself, not a "friend".

 

[The Heretic]

If you just touch the tip you will die !

 

[2506]

That was on a network TV show. A hospital drama wrote that into 1 episode.

Nope. I didn't watch tv in the early 90's.

January 10, 1994 Washington Post
"But some medical groups have complained that the Black Talon's sharp, curling edges pose risks during surgery because they are more likely to tear a surgeon's gloves and expose the surgeon and victim to infection during an attempt to remove the bullet."

 

[titsonritz]

tHe HuMaN cOoKiE cUtTeR.