Other State Bill Call For Charges Against Gun Owners If Kids Get Weapons

[awshoot]

Tax deductible, and I'd pass it.

Dollar for dollar tax credit even better. ;-)

I think in WA gun safes don't have sales tax so that's something at least. Not positive on that though.

EDIT: here it is, WA sales tax exemption for gun safes: RCW 82.08.832: Exemptions—Sales of gun safes.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

And yet, how many time has this forum applauded with a teenage girl blows some derelict away in defense of her younger sibling.

I do not support government overreach like this. Sounds okay at first brussh. But being as by 14 I had used a gun in hand to actually stop a home invasion, color me not a fan. Also, I had my own gun by 12. Kids have not changed. Parents have changed how they raise them. And kids do succesfuly use them to defend life and limb and I think it should be an individual parent's call, knowing their kids.

 

[nwslopoke]

Realistically the question this Bill poses for me, in the name of child safety is why stop at guns? Kids selling kids drugs like opiates are a much bigger issue than school shootings. Should parents of drug dealing kids be held liable for drug overdoses? Street race accidents and so forth? Bills like these have nothing to do with safety because if did we know the government has no problems spending billions in tax money on wasteful project. Whey no Office or Dept of school security? When something like that happens I know they are trying to make real change.

 

[bbbass]

The stated purpose of the law is to protect children. That will only work if parents obey the law. Yet, we have seen plenty of statements right here in PNW that people have no intention at all of obeying some laws. Will they go house to house to ensure compliance... NO!! So, to give the law teeth they enact punishment of people that don't/won't comply. Again, there is anecdotal evidence that shows that some people will still not comply. And the punishment comes after the fact... so, all in all it won't be very effective at keeping kids safe. But very effective at punishing parents and terrorizing gun owners.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I'm not offended by the Ohio bill. Kids sometimes get access to guns without great effort by stealing from their parents. This would make that method of acquiring firearms more difficult (though I realize, not impossible) -- but the law won't penalize parents if their kid goes to extraordinary safe-cracking lengths to get the guns (which I see as fair). It also doesn't affect people who don't expect kids in their home, also fair.

I think the law could be made better though with a carrot -- for example, exchange a receipt showing purchase of a safe and get a free hunting and/or fishing license or something like that.

Carrots+sticks are better than either alone, but the law never seems to get that.

The best carrot would be a law that says if you've stored your firearms in an approved manner and they then fall into the hands of someone who does bad things with them, then you are immune to any criminal or civil liability. If you don't store your firearms in an approved manner then you get to take your chances in court (just like it is now).

As a matter of fact, I think it would be a very good defensive tactic for gun owners to get together and promote such a bill. It would pre-empt the most appealing topic the anti's have to work with. They can attach all manner of obnoxious laws to a "Safe Storage" bill and get it passed based on the idea of guaranteeing safe storage. We should take that politically popular Trojan Horse away from them.

 

[2A2Dend]

We The People, need a Protection Order from the House Minions and the Dick tastors

 

[awshoot]

The best carrot would be a law that says if you've stored your firearms in an approved manner ... then you are immune to any criminal or civil liability. ...

As a matter of fact, I think it would be a very good defensive tactic for gun owners to get together and promote such a bill. ...

I love that carrot. It's subtle, but holy cow, valuable. The OH law covers criminal liability, but doesn't get so far as civil.

I very much agree with your second point. The OH law here could be a good basis on which to start actually. Just take the paragraph about safes and blend in "civil liability" too.

 

[Massolo]

Bill Call For Charges Against Gun Owners If Kids Get Weapons

I'm for this if it is in fact the parent leaving an unsecured firearm laying around and their kid gets it. But if Little Johnny burglarizes someones home and steals it, the gun owner should not be liable. Moreover, I'd like to see a law that says when Little Johnny misses or disrupts class a certain amount of times, the parents have to come to court and explain why.

 

[blacktailbucks]

I don't have a huge problem with this. I think as a gun owner its our responsibility to keep our firearms out of the hands of kids (unless supervised of course).

My house, my family my rules, government need not be concerned, that being said my 9 year old is proficient with pistols and rifles and knows handling any weapon without an adult present has immediate and severe consequences, teaching responsibility is way more important than adding new laws that won't be followed.

I don't have a huge problem with this. I think as a gun owner its our responsibility to keep our firearms out of the hands of kids (unless supervised of course).

 

[Koda]

I dont support laws that hold good people liable for the crimes of others, including their kids.

I believe all parents should lock up their guns with children in the homes, but the type of parent that doesnt already isnt going to follow a law that cant be enforced until after the matter.... Which only sets up gun owners for more infringing laws.

You cant legislate responsibility.


I would support a gun law that gives parents with guns free gun safety classes, maybe as a tax write off IDK.... That would start to turn the parental unlocked gun culture around and promote gun safety education.

 

[WoodsPlinker]

If you do the right thing but everyone else doesn't should you be penalized for their actions?

I know there is no such thing as fairness in this world but... If as a society we keep progressing down a path of passing the buck instead of personal accountability it will be a society in chains. (More so then now)

The government creates scapegoats for people that don't want to look in the mirror and take some personal accountability for the monsters they help create.

 

[JCKelly]

I keep a loaded revolver in my trousers, which then hang by the bed at night (no kids in house). It is for protection. Never ever do I leave a loaded gun unattended, that = trouble. If I gotta use it I want it right to hand, right now. No time to figure out safe combinations, dig up ammo &c. Want gun NOW. Laws will fix nothing, just reduce my safety. All the same scam.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

When my kids are, say 14 and 16, I expect them to not only be safe but proficient in the use of arms and knowing when it is appropriate to go get a gun.I don't want to neuter their ability to defend themselves. As I said, I was under 18 the first couple times I pulled a gun in self defense. I didn't have to fire a shot, but I would have if I needed to.

My kids live in a much safer area than I did. However, who knows what the future holds? I don't want to force them to use the bows, the antique swords or the spear. (And yes I keep a spear in the house. I use it to jab raccoons enough to convince them my dogs are not to be toyed with.)

 

[boron]

We need a law against leaving buckets laying around, leaving poisons under the sink, 2nd story windows and swimming pools. Think of the children. No wait I've got it, let make a law against stupid people. Sooner or later we're bound to find one of these laws that will work, damn it.

I agree, firmly! Maybe if we make a law against having children (even better, attaching them by short leashes to their parents), there won't be any cause to worry about the children hurting themselves or others.

 

[boron]

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I think a number of people are unable to understand the last four(4) words.
Reading a lot of the replies, at first I thought that the posters were trying to be humorous.
Keep my weapon(s) locked away in a "child-proof safe;" ya gotta be kiddin' me. In an emergency requiring seconds to act, I may as well call the police.

 

[clearconscience]

I don't have a huge problem with this. I think as a gun owner its our responsibility to keep our firearms out of the hands of kids (unless supervised of course).

And it's the parents responsibility to teach their kids firearms safety, and more so if your kid is a nut job, don't protect them, protect others.
Don't pretend there's nothing wrong with them.
Remove guns from your home if need be.

Society needs to start blaming parents, but if they do it like this, they better start doing it with all the worthless ghetto parents that raise criminals too.

 

[awshoot]

I keep a loaded revolver in my trousers, which then hang by the bed at night (no kids in house). It is for protection. Never ever do I leave a loaded gun unattended, that = trouble. If I gotta use it I want it right to hand, right now. No time to figure out safe combinations, dig up ammo &c. Want gun NOW. Laws will fix nothing, just reduce my safety. All the same scam.

The OH version of the law would have no impact on you -- it only impacts those who reasonably expect to permissibly have children in the home and only when the kids are there, and if you are next to the gun or wearing it, you don't have to lock it even when kids are present. As I noted above, it bans what is irresponsible and harmful to all gun owners in the form of awful headlines (*), and does not ban that which is logical. It even, for the poster above, allows parents to choose to not secure their guns at all (give access permission) if the parents feel the kids are responsible and there are no consequences.

The only time there is a consequence is if the kids are actually irresponsible and harm someone (except for self-defense), then the parent is in trouble. I think it would encourage parents to be realistic about how trustworthy their kids are rather than take the knee jerk position that they are perfect angels.

(*) Not exactly on point, but something I saw today and the exact type of bubblegum that is going to impact all gun owners: 8-year-old boy accidentally shoots mother at baseball game, gun owner charged

 

[awshoot]

"... keep and bear Arms ...

Not the same as "misplace and lose". Yeah, I know I'm gonna get crap for that but that is what we are talking about. People who let nutjobs take their guns.

 

[Caveman Jim]

What happened with putting the blame and punishing the criminal that commits a crime? Why blame an innocent person for the actions of a criminal?
our society has progressed to total non accountability. Only gun owners can do wrong, it's the guns fault....

 

[nammac]

What happened with putting the blame and punishing the criminal that commits a crime? Why blame an innocent person for the actions of a criminal?
our society has progressed to total non accountability. Only gun owners can do wrong, it's the guns fault....

You'll quickly get your ticket stamped at the re-education camp, you understand the message...

Sarcasm off...