Other State Bill Call For Charges Against Gun Owners If Kids Get Weapons

[awshoot]

That's exactly what these kind of laws do
It supposedly makes kids safer by removing my right to having guns accessible in my own home and others homes. This is a parenting issue not a gun issue - there are many ways to do harm to others - this one focuses on guns instead of parents teaching consequences.

I quoted the law to you -- it says you can leave it laying around in a location in your immediate control or carry it on you. Would you leave a room with a loaded gun on the coffee table and a toddler nearby? I doubt you would do that -- this law would only bite you if you did do something like that.

Second in bad press for the 2A (or fuel for draconian gun laws), are the stories about 4 yr olds shooting a sibling or their own mother.

 

[DB is Here]

We have more than enough laws on the books. This is nothing more than Politicians "Doing Something" to justify a vote... IMO

Might as well pass a law that demands everyone uses "Common Sense"...Oops never mind they're already trying that.

 

[awshoot]

How is this proposed law any different then a kid stealing their parent's car to go out joy riding with their friend and kill someone, then locking up the parents?

Nobody is using these incidents to try to ban cars. That's how it is different. Logical? No. Consistent? No. Fair? Well, "fair" is just another four letter F word. Quit worrying about "fair". ;-)

 

[DB is Here]

Would you leave a room with a loaded gun on the coffee table and a toddler nearby?

I'd think wreckless endangerment is already law...No?

 

[JRuby]

I quoted the law to you -- it says you can leave it laying around in a location in your immediate control or carry it on you. Would you leave a room with a loaded gun on the coffee table and a toddler nearby? I doubt you would do that -- this law would only bite you if you did do something like that.

Second in bad press for the 2A (or fuel for draconian gun laws), are the stories about 4 yr olds shooting a sibling or their own mother.

So where are the guardians of the of the four year old? Again this is a parenting issue
Just one more law to control guns yet you think that helps the 2a and us gun owners.

 

[awshoot]

I'd think wreckless endangerment is already law...No?

It is, and I addressed that above. This law won't change that and I used a bad example.

Let me try this one:

Would you leave a gun on the coffee table near a 14 yo who is defiant, angry, cutting on himself, and violent? Of course not. But keeping a gun in a closet with such a teen is just as much asking for trouble and an enormous F-you to the 2A.

 

[DB is Here]

But keeping a gun in a closet with such a teen is just as much asking for trouble

I concur. It just seems insane to have a law for every small detail of life, then again If my weapon isn't on my person it's secured/locked up.

 

[JRuby]

It is, and I addressed that above. This law won't change that and I used a bad example.

Let me try this one:

Would you leave a gun on the coffee table near a 14 yo who is defiant, angry, cutting on himself, and violent? Of course not. But keeping a gun in a closet with such a teen is just as much asking for trouble and an enormous F-you to the 2A.

My brothers and I had guns accessible from as young as I can remember. My dad kept a k38 in a holster on.the back of his bedroom door. I lived for eighteen years in that house till I left for the navy at 18. The difference is that our dad made us more afraid of h than the law
We knew that we were responsible for our actions
This law is one more example of a nanny state trying to teach parenting to those parents that are not acting as parents. Parents are not to.be the kids best freinds they are to teach right from wrong and that thier are consequences to ones actions. To me this is a parenting issue
I for one am da3m tired of the state trying to protect us from ourselves
Creating new gun laws is infringement and you seem to support this. I dont.

 

[awshoot]

So where are the guardians of the of the four year old? Again this is a parenting issue
Just one more law to control guns yet you think that helps the 2a and us gun owners.

This specific law leaves you with lots of options:
1) If you trust your kids, you can give them permission and there are no consequences.
2) If someone breaks into your house, not your problem.
3) If you are next to the gun, you can leave it laying around.
4) You can carry the gun.
5) A kid can use the gun in self-defense (whether access is by permission or not).
6) It only applies to people when there are kids permissibly in their home.
EDIT: 7) If you do use a safe, you aren't penalized if it is defeated.

The law is only triggered if a kid takes a gun and uses the gun to cause injury or death (but not in SD context). Passing such a law would lead to broader awareness (you know it would be reported). Broader awareness would lead to at least some who would be negligent parents, to do a bit better job and that has the potential to disrupt what would otherwise have become a talking point for antis. So yes, this specific law, being well written and allowing real world use choices, is 2A protective in my view. It's not a Californized law better characterized as a "useless storage law" rather than a safe storage law.

 

[awshoot]

My brothers and I had guns accessible from as young as I can remember. ....

Same boat here but let's face facts -- kids and parents are different now, or at least enough are different that school shootings are a thing.

 

[JRuby]

And you actually believe this will.stop.shootings? A kid is a good kid up until.he / she pulls that trigger. The best solution to.stopping shootings is not done by the creation of another law
It's done by being a in tune parent that is playing a detailed roll in the child's life.

 

[awshoot]

I concur. It just seems insane to have a law for every small detail of life, then again If my weapon isn't on my person it's secured/locked up.

Honestly, I agree. I also understand the impulse to reject safe-storage laws out of hand because mostly, they are designed to make guns useless and I do object to those. Maybe it is because I've been reading a lot of legislative proposals this year, but the OH law is different from almost everything else. It mandates what makes sense without making illegal other things that make sense too. It's a short read and sort of worth it.

 

[awshoot]

And you actually believe this will.stop.shootings? A kid is a good kid up until.he / she pulls that trigger. The best solution to.stopping shootings is not done by the creation of another law
It's done by being a in tune parent that is playing a detailed roll in the child's life.

I think it can reduce them (*). I mentioned it above, a layered approach: keep the kid from getting a gun, keep the kid who gets a gun out of the school, keep the kid who gets a gun into school from surviving long enough to do damage.

(*) Obviously, for a determined nut-job, a gun will be obtained.

 

[JRuby]

I think it can reduce them (*). I mentioned it above, a layered approach: keep the kid from getting a gun, keep the kid who gets a gun out of the school, keep the kid who gets a gun into school from surviving long enough to do damage.

(*) Obviously, for a determined nut-job, a gun will be obtained.

I will give you credit for looking for a answer. I think adding more laws will give us the same results. Adding more laws continues to infringe on our 2a rights.

 

[awshoot]

I will give you credit for looking for a answer. I think adding more laws will give us the same results. Adding more laws continues to infringe on our 2a rights.

That's a fair sentiment. In all liklihood, the people who will follow the law are the people who are already following the law's principles, but the optimist in me can hope. And I get how that hope isn't a strong argument here, though I did my best. I'm sure I'm not the only one who cringes at every media report of a school shooting or an accidentally shot toddler. Not only for those injured, but for my own 2A rights, I want to see fewer of those stories.

 

[nwslopoke]

I am serious about this post. Government fails constantly in responsibility on all levels. From people reporting dangerous people to them not holding them in custody. There are too nany cases to cite.

Yes, gun owners need to be responsible for their firearms. But even when you have a safe, a determined person of any age given enough access can get in. Gee, in Oregon at least, it would be great if a gun owner could keep their guns at a trusted person's house if they have a problem child but aunt Kate made that illegal for non preacher types.

 

[Stomper]

 

[titsonritz]

And you actually believe this will.stop.shootings? A kid is a good kid up until.he / she pulls that trigger. The best solution to.stopping shootings is not done by the creation of another law
It's done by being a in tune parent that is playing a detailed roll in the child's life.

About as much as the last 7832 1/2 laws that have been passed on the subject.

 

[wewaits]

After careful reading it's not a bad law, the people it affects are those who aren't smart enough to control their firearms and or their kids. If you are a responsible person it won't affect you, if you have responsible family members it won't affect you. If you can't control your firearms or your kids you probably shouldn't have either in your life. I have never met a person who is responsible who doesn't secure their valuables. In a perfect world there wouldn't be bad kids or thieves but that world has never existed and never will. This law protects the rights people who are responsible and have the right intentions, it'll punish the dumb ones.

 

[Flymph]

I'm not offended by the Ohio bill. Kids sometimes get access to guns without great effort by stealing from their parents. This would make that method of acquiring firearms more difficult (though I realize, not impossible) -- but the law won't penalize parents if their kid goes to extraordinary safe-cracking lengths to get the guns (which I see as fair). It also doesn't affect people who don't expect kids in their home, also fair.

I think the law could be made better though with a carrot -- for example, exchange a receipt showing purchase of a safe and get a free hunting and/or fishing license or something like that.

Carrots+sticks are better than either alone, but the law never seems to get that.

Tax deductible, and I'd pass it.