Other State Bill Call For Charges Against Gun Owners If Kids Get Weapons

[awshoot]

Interesting -- bringing this back to the direct topic, this law seems pretty well thought out. From the penalties section (addressing titsonaritz' concern about juvenile self-defense):

(3) If the minor gains access to the firearm as a result of the violation and, without the lawful permission of the minor's parent, guardian, or custodian, uses the firearm to cause personal injury or death, other than in self-defense, a violation of this section is a felony of the first degree.

It also seems to protect a nightstand gun while you are there by it (at least arguably):

(C) Nothing in this section prohibits a person who is in the person's residence from carrying a firearm on the person's person or placing a firearm in a location that is under the person's immediate control.

 

[titsonritz]

Shoot, in a basic "smash and grab" the perps probably aren't going to have the tools and resources to get into a decent gun safe. So why make it easy on them by just leaving them laying around in a closet or under a pillow? My firearms are the most valuable possessions I own, why WOULDN'T I want to keep them safe and secure (and resistant to fire in my case)? To me, it just seems like common sense to keep my valuables locked up. All other reasons aside.

They use yours.

 

[nammac]

I guess it's fair if they also hold kids liable for death or damage if they take the parents car without permission, or get into the parents alcohol and cause death or damage, or their knives, or just about anything else that the parents own. So parents should lock up all of their possessions to keep the kids from causing problems.

How about locking up the kids, so the parents have no worries about what they might get themselves into

 

[titsonritz]

Interesting -- bringing this back to the direct topic, this law seems pretty well thought out. From the penalties section (addressing titsonaritz' concern about juvenile self-defense):



It also seems to protect a nightstand gun while you are there by it (at least arguably):

But if it is lock up how do they access it for SD? That is my point.

 

[titsonritz]

We do -- child endangerment laws. But aside from that, none of those causes implicate the 2A (my point, even if you don't want to "think of the children" -- do think of the 2A and anything that minimizes school shootings is good for the 2A).

And none of it keeps kids dying in all sorts of manners in numbers that pale in comparison to those where a firearm is involved.

 

[titsonritz]

How about locking up the kids, so the parents have no worries about what they might get themselves into

Now you're talking, where's my duct tape?

 

[awshoot]

But if it is lock up how do they access it for SD? That is my point.

You as the parent get to choose whether your kids are trustworthy enough to not make you a criminal and only use the gun for SD.

 

[titsonritz]

You as the parent get to choose whether your kids are trustworthy enough to not make you a criminal and only use the gun for SD.

Sort like it is now? Yep need a new law.

 

[awshoot]

And none of it keeps kids dying in all sorts of manners in numbers that pale in comparison to those where a firearm is involved.

Doesn't matter. There isn't a relentless assault on a constitutional right related to swimming pools.

 

[titsonritz]

Doesn't matter. There isn't a relentless assault on a constitutional right related to swimming pools.

You are missing my point, and it is the same with every post I've made. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE F'ING LAWS THAT DO NOTHING!!!!!!!!

 

[Alexx1401]

Bill Call For Charges Against Gun Owners If Kids Get Weapons

I could go along IF, they make it the same if some kid gets the car because the keys were left out. Kid hurts someone or themselves? Owner who left keys out should be charged. Why is only the evil gun to blame? That the people who are wanting to make this gun law will NEVER go for this shows where they are really going with this.

 

[Alexx1401]

I say go grab Kip Kinkel and every other surviving school shooter and put a bullet in the back of each one of their heads in public and on national TV, then make the statement , "This will happen to you if you if choose to shoot up a school, church, etc."

Love it but I would prefer public hanging. Televised live.

 

[2A2Dend]

I had a feeling this post was one of those "it feels good", topics.
Sure enough. The de-baiting. LOL!

I vote no

 

[JRuby]

Yeah we ought to lock all our guns so that if we really need them we cant get to them either
Makes no sense to me.

 

[awshoot]

You are missing my point, and it is the same with every post I've made. WE DON'T NEED ANY MORE F'ING LAWS THAT DO NOTHING!!!!!!!!

I don't think this law does nothing. It doesn't really change the calculus for child endangerment laws (the example would be the toddler who finds a gun and shoots a sibling or self), on that you are correct, but it could have a realistic effect on some school shootings (I'm thinking of that one in Texas where the kid used his dad's revolver stored in a closet as a for instance).

My thinking is this:
1. Prevent kids from getting guns unsupervised (e.g.: safe storage IF kids are present with rational exceptions as in the OH law).
2. Prevent kids who get guns, from getting them into schools (e.g.: metal detectors).
3. Prevent kids who get guns into schools from doing much damage (e.g.: guards/armed teachers to confront and if need be, end the threat right there).

School shootings are the greatest threat to the 2A there is. Doing a whatabout on cars or baseball bats or whatever, distracts from countering that threat. If Bloomberg wants to go after Ford or Toyata -- good luck, even HRC voting soccer moms won't be giving up the minivan till its pried from their cold dead hands.

 

[awshoot]

Yeah we ought to lock all our guns so that if we really need them we cant get to them either
Makes no sense to me.

That's not what this law does. This specific example out of OH is honestly, pretty well done:

(C) Nothing in this section prohibits a person who is in the person's residence from carrying a firearm on the person's person or placing a firearm in a location that is under the person's immediate control.

 

[NWGlockgal]

How about locking up the kids, so the parents have no worries about what they might get themselves into

A better idea!

 

[JRuby]

That's not what this law does, it is honestly, pretty well done:

That's exactly what these kind of laws do
It supposedly makes kids safer by removing my right to having guns accessible in my own home and others homes. This is a parenting issue not a gun issue - there are many ways to do harm to others - this one focuses on guns instead of parents teaching consequences.

 

[titsonritz]

School shootings are the greatest threat to the 2A there is. Doing a whatabout on cars or baseball bats or whatever, distracts from countering that threat. If Bloomberg wants to go after Ford or Toyata -- good luck, even HRC voting soccer moms won't be giving up the minivan till its pried from their cold dead hands.

No Anti-gunners are and they don't give two shakes about the welfare of children.

 

[titsonritz]

How is this proposed law any different then a kid stealing their parent's car to go out joy riding with their friend and kill someone, then locking up the parents?