Best caliber for Bigfoot?

[Ghoul]

Below are a couple of Skamania County ordinances regarding Sasquatch.

http://www.skamaniacounty.org/ordinance/Bigfoot Ordinance 69-01.pdf

http://www.skamaniacounty.org/ordinance/Ord_1984-2.pdf

That ordinance is dated april 1st

 

[osprey]

Well not to shake the believers too much but don't ya all think somebody would have bagged one by now? On the other hand I was hunting Whitetail out of my Uncle's camp in the Bonaparte/lost lake area about 10 yrs ago and the last morning we were there, 3 of us heard a sound none of has had heard before or again. We joked it was a Sasquatch. The night before I put on a big blowout fish fry for our last night in camp. After the cooking was over I dumped the used fishy oil on a stump about 30yds from my wall tent. We had a few toddies that night by the fire and went off to bed. Just before daybreak I here my buddy get out of his cot and make his way out of the tent, presumably for relief of his bladder. He comes back in and gets back in his rack. I just started dozing back off and then bolted back into full consciousness thinking I heard something very strange and close. I sat there on full alert listening and the beast made his call not once but 3 more times each about 5-10 seconds apart. After the second one my buddy bolts up in his rack and says "wtf was that"? I replied, "I dunno maybe you should go look"? Fu was his retort. It did it twice more and that was it for the sleeping in. I got dressed and made coffee waiting for full daylight to investigate. The best I can describe the sound was like a half howl half scream and it was loud and towards the direction of the stump I dumped the oil on. Investigating I found no strange tracks or any clues to the sounds origin. My Uncle heard it also from his tent about 30yds from mine. I suggested an owl and he said it was like no owl he had ever heard and he has spent most of his life in the woods. I still think bird of some sort but it was chilling and have not completely ruled out Bigfoot lol.

Oh and the rifle I took with me to investigate was a lever action in 45-70 so that is my answer.

 

[Carbon]

As many of us can say, after so many years on this planet, we have seen/heard things we havent been able to quickly explain. As with all campfire/folklore stories, based mostly in fantasy has often a sliver of truth passed from generations before us. Such as sea monsters that eventually turned into whales and giant squids. Now we just have to find good calibers for ghosts and ufo's.

 

[2A2Dend]

I tend to agree.
If there was "Bigfoot"
Someone would have hard physical evidence.
The is none.

Nothing to see.
Never has been.

I'll change my stance, when someone has hard proof.

 

[OldBroad44]

I think its unlikely there is a bigfoot, but not impossible. Unlikely because there so far is no proof. By which I bodies, bones, or even hair, something with DNA. (I would not consider photos, videos, footprints, or reports "proof". These things can be faked.) And people have looked in suspect areas, including using night vision and infared vision equipment.

How might it be possible for it to exist without there being proof? Well, by being rare, nocturnal, acclimated to mountains instead of lowlands. Secretive. People avoiding. Inclined to avoid humans and areas near humans. Inclined to avoid roads and hide its scat. Ive read that cougars avoid roads. And some creatures, including housecats, hide their scat. Being vegetarian would also help, as if it ate free ranging cattle I think we would know about it. It would also help if it ate the same sorts of stuff as bears and left signs similar to bears. If it leaves obvious sign it probably has to be something similar to and easily mistaken for that of some other creature. If it hibernates that would reduce its visibility to just a few months a year. I doubt if it eats fish, as the good fishing spots are overrun with humans and I think a fish eating bigfoot would have been discovered. I think if it were generally aggressive to people, it would also have got found. I suspect that the classic rock throwing and screaming are rare rather than normal. They might be territorial displays during the mating season only. And conceivably only used with one or two humans only, not groups. Or restricted to when female or young are present. Its conceivable it exists if it is very rare and has most or all those characteristics.

Another thing that would help keep a bigfoot from being discovered is if most of those with real experiences keep their mouths shut except among trusted friends. And most sane people would do exactly that, since reporting a bigfoot sighting will likely just get you labeled a fruitcake. About 30 years back, I read a book that summarized bigfoot reports in the NW. Some struck me as sounding pretty credible. Especially those where it was supposedly one or two guys driving around the woods at night, and where it was seriously vague and sounded like excuse making as to what they were doing driving around the woods at night. I figure the main reasons for a guy driving around the woods at night is he's poaching, or he's with someone else's lady. The reports that sounded the most real to me sounded like they were telling the truth about the bigfoot, but covering up who was with them or what they were doing there in the first place.

 

[PNWguy]

I tend to agree.
If there was "Bigfoot"
Someone would have hard physical evidence.
The is none.

Nothing to see.
Never has been.

I'll change my stance, when someone has hard proof.

Depends on your definition of "hard physical evidence"... For some, that is footprints with dermal ridges, or hair samples that come back as ape in origin and an unknown DNA, or scat with the same DNA. The multiple audio recordings satisfy others.

For others, it is only a body.

Usually folks that say they want "hard physical evidence" escalate what evidence will satisfy their skepticism to the point that they state only a body will satisfy them.

There is plenty of physical evidence. Just not a body. Plenty have been shot, or hit by vehicles, or killed by other means. But the bodies are always recovered by other members of the animal's group.

And there have been plenty of game camera images that have caught them as well.

Hundreds of extremely credible eyewitness statements as well.

The problem is, there are more people that are trying to fake encounters, or mistook a black bear in heavy brush or a cougar making noise for a bigfoot that naysayers have plenty of examples to trot out to discredit those that believe.

 

[No_Regerts]

Depends on your definition of "hard physical evidence"... For some, that is footprints with dermal ridges, or hair samples that come back as ape in origin and an unknown DNA, or scat with the same DNA. The multiple audio recordings satisfy others.

For others, it is only a body.

Usually folks that say they want "hard physical evidence" escalate what evidence will satisfy their skepticism to the point that they state only a body will satisfy them.

There is plenty of physical evidence. Just not a body. Plenty have been shot, or hit by vehicles, or killed by other means. But the bodies are always recovered by other members of the animal's group.

And there have been plenty of game camera images that have caught them as well.

Hundreds of extremely credible eyewitness statements as well.

The problem is, there are more people that are trying to fake encounters, or mistook a black bear in heavy brush or a cougar making noise for a bigfoot that naysayers have plenty of examples to trot out to discredit those that believe.

 

[CountryGent]

Ooh, good campfire story.

Of course there also unpleasant campfire events:

(One of my late family members was responsible for the audio in that film, including, presumably, that rather colorful, or more accurately, flatulent scene. Perhaps not the finest moment in family history, but since I'm a silly person, I find humor in said. )

Well not to shake the believers too much but don't ya all think somebody would have bagged one by now?

Bingo. A large, bipedal primate, that inhabits a region with a human presence for a very long time and no one ever has been able to capture or kill one, nor has there ever been skeletal remains found, or conclusive DNA evidence secured? Dubious, to put it mildly. And, I might add, several of the more modern "evidence" has been conclusively proven to be fake.

I am aware of the Native American legends surrounding the alleged creature, but remember, all people groups have stories of fantastical beasts. In Spanish history, for example, there is El Hombre Pez (fishman), which is supposedly an aquatic race of beings that look like men, but are stronger, have gills, and small patches of scales. Many sightings were reported and one even allegedly caught. Does this mean I'd buy someone's claim of, for lack of a better way to put it, that The Creature of the Black Lagoon is real? Nope. It is a legend, like many others among the great many people groups of this world.

 

[OldBroad44]

Yeah, if bigfoots actually recovered and hid bodies that would also keep them hidden.

Ape hair could be planted. Dermal ridges could be faked. So can screams and yowls. These just aren't reliable evidence in a field full of fakery and mischief makers. Nor are statements about unknown ape DNA from unknown people and unstated labs. In this situation, the only evidence that os hard evidence is something that cant be faked.

If there are any reports of DNA from an unknown ape in north america anywhere in the legitimate scientific literature, I'm unaware of it. And I would expect to have heard about it. If a real unknown ape in NA has been hit by a car, its blood should have been sent to one of the people whose lives are dedicated to identifying and analyizing unknown primates. It would be big news, and likely published in Science, Nature, or PNAS, not gone unpublished at all or self published or published in pseudoscience rags.

I agree that there are a lot of private reports among friends that sound credible. PNWguy's experience with the 10 lb rock being heaved at the pole sounded like the real thing to me. So did osprey's experience of having attracted something to his dump of used cooking fat.

 

[etrain16]

I'm on the skeptical side with regard to Bigfoot. I have no problem with the idea of them existing, but I've not seen/heard enough evidence to convince me they exist. If someone can provide hard evidence, I'm happy to accept they believe.

That said, I see no reason, outside of self-defense, to ever shoot one, should they exist. If they are real, they are certainly rare and special and should be preserved and studied. That said, should a self-defense situation exist, I would certainly want a large caliber weapon - a .45-70, .308, etc. In a handgun, .44 mag or 10mm minimum.

 

[The Heretic]

Just



And you'll never run out

 

[zenbreath]

White tigers were first documented by locals in India in 48 AD. Scientists considered them Mythical, not Actual until one was captured in 1915.

Read the history of Rogue Waves. Scientists will find a way to dismiss eyewitnesses reports until the evidence is so strong that 5th graders say 'Dude, get a clue!'

 

[Carbon]

"On 23 December 1938, the first Latimeria specimen was found off the east coast of South Africa, off the Chalumna River (now Tyolomnqa)."

"Its discovery 66 million years after it was believed to have become extinct makes the coelacanth the best-known example of a Lazarus taxon, an evolutionary line that seems to have disappeared from the fossil record only to reappear much later."

We like to think we are the wisest in our time and place, but the future holds many obvious truths for future generations to discover.

 

[308]

The Nuke .50 slipped my mind. Originally developed by Birdman Weapon Systems.

 

[AirResq]

With all of that hair, I'd keep away from any flintlocks. I'd probably start him off with a .270 to build his confidence, and go up from there. He could likely handle any of the large caliber rifles.

Edit: My bad. Thought you wanted to outfit HIM for hunting.

 

[malakajim]

The responses from some of the skeptics astound me. Do you really believe that a dead body has never been recovered? Then you probably also believe that the government has your best interest in mind. At ALL times.

I'm not going to get into all the conspiracy theory BS, but do a little research on the Ohio mounds. Settlers have been unearthing giant hominid skeletons a long time ago, only to have the remains claimed by "official sources". Namely the Smithsonian. I can't imagine what their archives contain.
Raiders of the lost arc proportions.

But hey, you're free to believe what you want.

 

[OldBroad44]

White tigers were first documented by locals in India in 48 AD. Scientists considered them Mythical, not Actual until one was captured in 1915.

Read the history of Rogue Waves. Scientists will find a way to dismiss eyewitnesses reports until the evidence is so strong that 5th graders say 'Dude, get a clue!'

I agree with your facts, but not the emphasis. Rogue waves indeed have only been convincingly documented in the last decade or two. Most scientists did not take the reports of nonscientist sailors seriously. However, legitimately so. Very few who went to sea ever saw them. Plenty of people live on seacoasts their whole lives and never see one. And actually, most stuff scientists disbelieve because no scientist has ever seen it stays imaginary. Mermaids, for example. Or Silkies. Or whales that swallow boats or men. Or witches.

But the initially disbelieved rogue waves turned out to be real. Other natural phenomenon widely observed by many lay folk long before being accepted by scientists include meteorites, ball lightening, and continental drift. Theres a pattern. Usually a scientist is more likely to be right if he disbelieves stuff which he and other scientists have never seen than believes it. In fact, you cant really create science at all without that basically sceptical attitude. However, this means sometimes scientists will be wrong, that is, fail to recognize the truth of something until long after many lay people.

There is a pattern to where this happens. First, the disbelieved phenomenon is generally rare and not something a scientist can arrange to see. So no scientist has seen it and reported on it. And its not possible to go look for and find it. Its not controllable by people or reproducible. Third, there is no known mechanism that would explain the thing if it were real. It doesnt fit within the established science of the day. It often violates some accepted assumption or seems to contradict known facts. Most stuff that doesnt fit the established science of the day doesnt fit because it is wrong. Even lots of observations and experiments of other scientists are wrong a good bit of the time. Or are misinterpreted or overinterpreted. So you just cant build a science at all unless you are generally sceptical about unproved assertions and reported "facts" that contradict other things you think you know. However, this inevitably means being wrong sometimes.

Metorites contradicted the concept of the constance of the heavens outside the planets. Continental drift didnt make sense until we understood that continents were thin solid crusts floating on hotter molten layers. And as best I can tell, we dont fully understand ball lightening, but it appears sometimes on film. And exactly how waves in excess of a hundred feet high manage to arise and propagate isnt fully understood either. But there are enough ships that have survived them with the damage on the ship indicating the exact height so that its clear monster waves are real, and not all that rare. Their apparent rarity in the era of smaller wooden ships was undoubtedly partly because usually most people who saw one didnt survive to report it.

 

[zenbreath]

The responses from some of the skeptics astound me. Do you really believe that a dead body has never been recovered? Then you probably also believe that the government has your best interest in mind. At ALL times.

I'm not going to get into all the conspiracy theory BS, but do a little research on the Ohio mounds. Settlers have been unearthing giant hominid skeletons a long time ago, only to have the remains claimed by "official sources". Namely the Smithsonian. I can't imagine what their archives contain.
Raiders of the lost arc proportions.

But hey, you're free to believe what you want.

...valid points.

 

[zenbreath]

I agree with your facts, but not the emphasis. Rogue waves indeed have only been convincingly documented in the last decade or two. Most scientists did not take the reports of nonscientist sailors seriously. However, legitimately so. Very few who went to sea ever saw them. Plenty of people live on seacoasts their whole lives and never see one. And actually, most stuff scientists disbelieve because no scientist has ever seen it stays imaginary. Mermaids, for example. Or Silkies. Or whales that swallow boats or men. Or witches.

But the initially disbelieved rogue waves turned out to be real. Other natural phenomenon widely observed by many lay folk long before being accepted by scientists include meteorites, ball lightening, and continental drift. Theres a pattern. Usually a scientist is more likely to be right if he disbelieves stuff which he and other scientists have never seen than believes it. In fact, you cant really create science at all without that basically sceptical attitude. However, this means sometimes scientists will be wrong, that is, fail to recognize the truth of something until long after many lay people.

There is a pattern to where this happens. First, the disbelieved phenomenon is generally rare and not something a scientist can arrange to see. So no scientist has seen it and reported on it. And its not possible to go look for and find it. Its not controllable by people or reproducible. Third, there is no known mechanism that would explain the thing if it were real. It doesnt fit within the established science of the day. It often violates some accepted assumption or seems to contradict known facts. Most stuff that doesnt fit the established science of the day doesnt fit because it is wrong. Even lots of observations and experiments of other scientists are wrong a good bit of the time. Or are misinterpreted or overinterpreted. So you just cant build a science at all unless you are generally sceptical about unproved assertions and reported "facts" that contradict other things you think you know. However, this inevitably means being wrong sometimes.

Metorites contradicted the concept of the constance of the heavens outside the planets. Continental drift didnt make sense until we understood that continents were thin solid crusts floating on hotter molten layers. And as best I can tell, we dont fully understand ball lightening, but it appears sometimes on film. And exactly how waves in excess of a hundred feet high manage to arise and propagate isnt fully understood either. But there are enough ships that have survived them with the damage on the ship indicating the exact height so that its clear monster waves are real, and not all that rare. Their apparent rarity in the era of smaller wooden ships was undoubtedly partly because usually most people who saw one didnt survive to report it.

I agree with the basics of what you are saying. The issue I have is the belief that if a scientist hasn't proved it, that it is false, when it is simply an unknown.

 

[OldBroad44]

The responses from some of the skeptics astound me. Do you really believe that a dead body has never been recovered? Then you probably also believe that the government has your best interest in mind. At ALL times.

I'm not going to get into all the conspiracy theory BS, but do a little research on the Ohio mounds. Settlers have been unearthing giant hominid skeletons a long time ago, only to have the remains claimed by "official sources". Namely the Smithsonian. I can't imagine what their archives contain.
Raiders of the lost arc proportions.

But hey, you're free to believe what you want.

Sure, Ohio mounds built by Indians are real. So are all sorts of giant bones, from bears and sloths and mammoths to dinosaurs. Amature bone diggers frequently mistake these for human. There have not been, as far as I know, any giant ape bones discovered in america ever.

There was a giant ape, Gigantopithecus, that was about 9 feet tall and lived about 9 million years ago in India, china, etc. No bones of it or any other giant ape have been reported in NA. Its a reasonable speculation that Gigantopithecus or its descendants might have crossed the bering land bridge to NA, just as humans did. But so far there are no gigantopithecus or ape bones of any sort from NA. Part of why Bigfoot seems so reasonable is that we know that there once was a creature apparently very similar to it that coexisted with Homo erectus. So maybe it made it over the landbridge and evolved into bigfoot.

Theres not just no credible reports of giant hominid bones from NA. Theres no particular reason why anyone would want to conceal them. Everyone who found or worked on them would want to publish their work. Career advancement requires it. And maybe the goverment might cover up ufos or alien bodies, if there are any, to prevent a public panic. But big old hominid bones would threaten no one. Not any more than dinosaur, mammoth, or giant sloth bones, which nobody bothers concealing.