Bear defense

[ron]

Good article thanks. Going to Yellowstone this summer. My nephew
recommends to get some bear spray. But I think my 3 inch 629 with
300 grain gas checks would be nice to have too?

 

[gunsmithkinks]

I'll tell you boys how the Eskimos hunt Polar Bears.
They cut a hole in the ice next to a snowdrift that they can hide behind. Next they take a can of sweet peas and sprinkle some around the hole thst they cut through the ice. Then the make a trail some distance in length by sprinkling the sweet peas away from the hole they cut through the ice.
The next thing they do takes patience. They hide behind the snow drift close as they can to the hole they cut through the ice and wait for a Polar Bear to come along gobbling up the sweet peas one at a time.
Once the Polar Bear gets to the hole they cut through the ice, they wait for the bear to bend over to "take a pea", then they sneak up behind him and poke him in the "icehole" And that's Eskimo Polar Bear huntin for ya.

 

[The Heretic]

Bears have the right to bear bare bear arms too. I saw it on Family Guy

 

[The Heretic]

They have those neat little birds head handle shotguns now as well if you think an 18" barrel is too heavy.

Have you ever shot a very lightweight 12 ga shotgun with a heavy load?

I have - not fun. Most people do not want to try it a second time. It is about on par with shooting my 329PD with bear loads.

If I wanted to carry something heavy while working in the woods, it would be my 460V with BB loads

 

[The Heretic]

There are some nice scabbards for the Shockwave and TAC14s, you will hardly know they are there. And for those to whom fishing means catch and release, come see me for a few boxes of rubber buckshot so you can meet that bear again and try to sort it out all over again sometime later!

View attachment 438299

I would like the rubber buckshot for dogs more than bears or cougars.

Sometimes my motion detector lights outside turn on in the middle of the morning when I happen to be getting a drink of water and I see it from the kitchen window. About 10% of those times I go outside to see what is going on. It is probably a raccoon, but anymore I take a shotgun just in case I unintentionally put a cougar or bear in a corner. It is loaded with alternating buckshot and slugs. At that point I don't think a bear is or cougar is going to be discouraged by rubber buckshot. A human or dog maybe - but neither of those are usually a problem up here and if I was going to shoot at them it wouldn't be rubber buckshot.

Just the same, the rubber buckshot would be something good to have in my 'arsenal' of 12 ga. loads should I ever think I need it.

 

[WAYNO]

The bear defense discussion will never end.

I have tramped the mountains all of my life, and I've seen a lot of bears.

The majority of them wanted nothing more than to get away from me. In almost every case once they jumped out of sight, I never heard another sound. They can be very quiet when they want to be. So ya never know if they are still 10 yards away in the brush, or if they're in the next county.

I've had two bears get up close and personal. In both cases they finally decided to leave, but if they they hadn't, and they did in fact charge, there would have been absolutely no time to get a handgun out from under a jacket, and definitely no time to get a shotgun out of a backpack scabbard. And one of the times I had a shotgun with birdshot in the chamber and magazine, with slugs in my pocket. There was absolutely no time to thumb a slug or buckshot load into the chamber if the bear decided to hurt me.

My point...Doesn't really matter what gun or ammo combination you're using if it isn't already in your hands or instantly available.

And yes, bears have been killed with everything from a .22 to a .500-or-bigger-whizbanger-magnum. But in the heat of the moment, I likely am not gonna be able to release the most controlled and precise shot, so to me, if bear (or Moose, et al.) protection is a concern, when I'm not using a shotgun or rifle, or even in addition to a shotgun or rifle, I'm gonna carry a manly-chambered handgun, so's if I am forced to take a poor percentage shot, it might do some respectable damage to the offending critter anyway.

 

[rjmt]

Have you ever shot a very lightweight 12 ga shotgun with a heavy load?

I have - not fun. Most people do not want to try it a second time.

I must counter here - I've been shooting my Mossberg Shockwave for several months now with slugs and 00 buck
when properly using the front strap, it not an issue. Accuracy is not a problem ether, with some practice.
I found a backscabbard the best way to carry the 26" Shockwave. Not a fast draw situation, but the padded backscabbard
gives you 6 rnds of 12 ga that is lightweight and allows you 2 hands for what ever your endevor is.

rjmt

 

[bbbass]

When I went to CanaDA for fishing, I carried a 12ga with a sling because CanaDA would not let me bring a Savage 99 in .308. Upon recommendation of my friend that lived many years in Wasilla, AK, I had the first round of birdshot to mess up the bears sense of smell and vision, the next rounds were buckshot and slugs. Never had to use it but I was sure nervous when going up small spawn creeks. But the only bear we saw was a huge black bear on a dirt road. I wasn't packing the shotty when fly fishing in the Telkwa River at dusk and caught a huge shadow out of the corner of my eye... moose crossing the river about 25yds downstream from me. Startled but man, those things can swim!!

 

[Joe13]

Have you ever shot a very lightweight 12 ga shotgun with a heavy load?

I have - not fun. Most people do not want to try it a second time. It is about on par with shooting my 329PD with bear loads.

If I wanted to carry something heavy while working in the woods, it would be my 460V with BB loads

Yes. Not really a problem for me.

You obviously don't like my suggestions (can't count how many people have posted that their Alaskan guides carried a 12ga) but it doesn't mean everyone fits your desire for a lightweight low recoil gun that will for sure stop a bear but doesn't get in your way in any way.

I was just tossing out an opinion but I'll abstain from any more suggestions.

 

[The Heretic]

Yes. Not really a problem for me.

You obviously don't like my suggestions (can't count how many people have posted that their Alaskan guides carried a 12ga) but it doesn't mean everyone fits your desire for a lightweight low recoil gun that will for sure stop a bear but doesn't get in your way in any way.

I was just tossing out an opinion but I'll abstain from any more suggestions.

Don't take offense - I have my opinions too and most people do not like mine - I don't take offense and I don't stop sharing.

I do not debate that a 12 ga, properly loaded, is much more effective than a handgun.

As I posted, when I go outside in the dark at 2AM to see what might be out there tripping my motion sensor lights, when it is much more likely I might bump into a bear or cougar - I do take a 12 ga shotgun, but it is a bullpup that weighs 8 pounds, not a lightweight shockwave/et. al.

As I also stated, my choice of handguns is not low recoil, it is painful to shoot - but it is lightweight and being a .44 magnum it is also relatively effective against anything I encounter on my property.

It is just a matter of compromise and the fact that I like to go lightweight when I am tromping up and down the steep terrain of my property, often with other heavy tools in my hands, like an axe, or 2+ gallons of herbicide in a battery powered sprayer. As it is, just walking with nothing up and down the mountainside has me out of breath and sometimes my chest tight and heart pounding, so more weight is not something I am looking for.

In 55+ years of tromping around the PNW woods, I have yet to encounter wildlife that threatened me. Usually any threats I have encountered have come from humans, and most of those have been in urban environments, not places like where I currently live and spend 75% of my time (in a few years, 99% of my time). I am sure I have passed by animals in the woods that could kill me - I know bears have been within 100 yards of my house - I have seen their spoor as close as 100 feet. They leave me alone and I leave them alone.

But this isn't about me.

Each person has different circumstances and different things work for them. Also, something as mundane as the time of day makes a difference. I don't go out at 2AM in the dark, with a handgun, when I know something or somebody is out there, but during the day most often I have nothing but a pocket knife.

 

[rjmt]

Heretic, I couldn't agree more - the purpose of this forum is the exchange of ideas, whether we agree or not
one should not take offence if their proposals are not accepted by all

as for night defense, no matter what the intruder - WATCH GEESE
3' tall African heavies
I've seen coyotes scatter under the charge of my big Gander
then I back him up with a 12 Ga

rjmt

 

[gunsmithkinks]

Bears especially black bears in the woods are pretty laid back or might attempt a mock charge and chuffed and huff at you postering, and stomping the ground then run off mostly, grizzlies do not, nor do big brownies in Alaska. I've heard a lottt of stories from guys I knew who guided hunts for the big Brownies, and everyone of them said #1, once that sob decides to charge you, it's not stopping until you fill it full of lead and put it down and when that gets up closee and personal you wish you had a cannon with you, or #2 you become bear chit.
Black bears are usually not much of a problem until people start feeding them after watching too many Yogi bear episodes on tv, then bears can get pretty cantankerous at best. When i was younger I lived in Montana back when they were still handing out mountain grizzly bear tags OVER THE COUNTER" and no caliber restrictions!
The real animal I'm always watching out for is cougars, they are quiet, fast, and kill quick.
By bthem time yiu hear one hiss, yiu are usually within cat sandwich range easily enough.
I can speak from experience with the black bears and cougars both and what they can do. I hunted cat and black bear with hounds for a LOT of years. I have seen manyyyyy cougars so agile that they jumped 20 feet vertically BEFORE thier front claws ever grabbed the bark on a tree. I have also seen cougars bail out and jump from trees on a mountainside as high up in the air as 80 feet onto a snow covered steep slope that you can't hardly crawl up.
I've also seen bears charge guys on the ground that took 2 to 3 full house loads from a 45-70, loaded hot in a straight gripped Marlin lever 1895 circa 1970 approx. That's what I usually carried for such situations.

Years ago I knew an older guy and his son who were bear hunting with hounds, by the way they were from Oregon. The treed bear ran face down head first down the tree before they knew what happened. The old guy's son ran up with a Ruger Super Blackhawk shoved into the base of the bears skull and unloaded lead into his head, shooting the bear and killing it right off the top of his dad as the bear mauled him damn near to death. Then they rushed his dad to the emergency room where he almost didn't make it.
I have been on manyyyyy a bear hunt when many times there were close calls. I have seen my share of bear killed with the barrel touching the hide when the gun went off to put thier fire out. There's no time to bumble and stumble around and trip and fall down when that chit is going on trust me. The best season we ever had was in 6 weeks we treed 60 bear and friends and family tagged out with 20 bear out of the 60 almost all boar bears. That was hunting back in the day on Fridays , Saturdays, and Sundays for 6 weeks.

For anyone thinking it's easy hunting with hounds, we'll all I got to say is its not easy #1, #2 it's a helluva Lotta work, and #3 it takes a LOTTTT of years training and breeding to make a good pack of hounds, and trust me, it's damn sure not cheap lol So for those who haven't been in the mud doing it, ya cant say what it's like. I did it for most of 20 years, and I was considered the youngest in the group of guys who taught me how to train dogs. I've trained my share cow dogs and bird dogs also. It's a labor of love, because it cost a lot money and time.
It sure gets your adrenaline pumped up REAL FAST though

Also seen my share of wolves where I'm from in the wild while hunting, and they aren't poodles trust me. In British Columbia they give out tags for them as a bonus. They hunt wolves there like we hunt coyotes down here in the states.
One guy in BC Canada was found dead while he was deer hunting with an empty Browning BAR hunting rifle with 6 dead wolves laying around him, and was found torn to heck with his gun smashed to pieces as he used it as a club before they killed him. The article said "it wasn't hard to figure out what happened"
A Catholic Priest in a Northern BC Canada mining camp a few yrs back said he was going for a walk. He never came back and they never found him, it was the consensus of all in the camp that wolves had most likely killed him. 2 stories also of Eskimo natives who went out to find the pack of wolves who killed another native while mushing sled dogs. When they found those two Native Eskimos their guns were both emptied, something like 30 dead wolves and a dead pack of sled dogs. Mother nature makes meat eaters. They don't eat salad lol

 

[The Heretic]

Bears especially black bears in the woods are pretty laid back or might attempt a mock charge and chuffed and huff at you postering,

As I am sure you are aware, the difference is between whether they feel threatened or not - the bears in your stories having been hunted and cornered.

Which is why I take a 12 ga out at night to see what went "bump" if I go out at all, and do not during the day.

I don't know what is out in beyond the lights and whether I am backing it into a corner or not - it might be a bear with cubs. It might be that cougar with a kitten that my neighbor saw. It might be a rabid raccoon.

During the day, I can usually see what is out there (especially in the winter when there are no leaves on half the trees) and I am much less likely to be threatening in my actions. So much so that the animal is usually gone by the time I get anywhere near them.

OTOH

 

[ZigZagZeke]

For anyone thinking it's easy hunting with hounds, we'll all I got to say is its not easy #1, #2 it's a helluva Lotta work, and #3 it takes a LOTTTT of years training and breeding to make a good pack of hounds, and trust me, it's damn sure not cheap lol So for those who haven't been in the mud doing it, ya cant say what it's like. I did it for most of 20 years, and I was considered the youngest in the group of guys who taught me how to train dogs. I've trained my share cow dogs and bird dogs also. It's a labor of love, because it cost a lot money and time.

As one hound hunter to another, I hear ya! I can't count the times that I've had people tell me how unsporting and easy it is to sit in a truck until the dogs tree something, then walk in leisurely-like to kill it. They've obviously never followed a pack of dogs on a hot rail over terrain like this for several hours or days:

I am retired from hound hunting now, but I still have one old bear dog to share my retirement with:



I do miss those hunts. Some pics from another houndsman:

The only thing I hold against him is he runs walkers :

 

[FriendOfEvanWilliams]

I live in black and brown bear country, and have seen both in the wild on camping trips, hikes, fishing, etc. I usually bring either a 20ga pump shotgun or a .44 magnum if I carry a firearm in the bush, but honestly they aren't as big of a threat as most people assume. They don't like people, and go out of their way to avoid contact with them usually. With the exception of urban garbage bears when I lived in Juneau, every bear I've come across has walked in the other direction as soon as they noticed me.

I always carry bear spray, although I've had to use it twice (garbage-bears) and once it barely had any effect on the tubby black bear that was in my driveway. He just sort of snuffled and went right back to his empty coconut oil container. So the spray is only 1 for 2 in my experience, but it's a must-have around here regardless.

The best bear defense, in my opinion, is bear bells or just being loud whenever you're surrounded by thick cover in the bush. If they can hear you coming, they won't be there when you get there. I often hike with a waterproof Bluetooth speaker attached to my backpack so instead of bells the whole hike I can listen to music or an audiobook to warn the bears I'm coming.

If I'm car/boat camping, or only have a short hike in, I will bring a shotgun and/or the .44, but sometimes it's just not worth hauling a gun big enough to put down a brown bear 6 miles through muskeg and forest in the rain.

 

[rjmt]

true - true - on the bear bells.
we've been out here 20 years - from day one, the kids would hike in the woods with hiking sticks with bear bells
not bear or cougar ever challenged them or I, when they knew we were around from the bells
I've seen a cougar at 50 yds, but no closer, when they knew I was there
prevention beats reactive protection any day

rjmt

 

[GRMPS]

50 AE works

 

[gunsmithkinks]

As one hound hunter to another, I hear ya! I can't count the times that I've had people tell me how unsporting and easy it is to sit in a truck until the dogs tree something, then walk in leisurely-like to kill it. They've obviously never followed a pack of dogs on a hot rail over terrain like this for several hours or days:
View attachment 438474
I am retired from hound hunting now, but I still have one old bear dog to share my retirement with:
View attachment 438478
View attachment 438487
View attachment 438488
I do miss those hunts. Some pics from another houndsman:
View attachment 438479
The only thing I hold against him is he runs walkers :
View attachment 438484 View attachment 438477 View attachment 438481

Haha I hear ya. Walkers yikes, those deer running sobs. They aren't much of a game dog in my opinion, they have too much running blood in them. Every walker dog guys had that hunted with us got a good deer breaking initiation manybtimes over before they got it figured out.
We ran a lot of plots fir bear dogs, and if any of them didn't mount up when the gun went off, we'll they got deleted from the pack let's say. We only fed dogs that got the job done each time, everytime. You had a few Blueticks I see. Those black and tan and Blueticks crosses make good coon and cat dogs.
One bear we were on a guy had 3 renegade deer running walkers leeft a good hot bear track fir a bunch of whitetail. We drove around lookin for his dogs and ran into an old hillbilly looking man about 80 years old. The guy that is missing the dogs, asked if he'd seen any "walker dogs" and the old man replied and said " sonny, I don't know a damn thing about walker dogs, but about 4 beagle color dogs came through here 2 hours ago, and I think they were speaking french, because the last time I saw 'em, they were on thier way to British Colombia Canada" the guy who owned the dogs said "well son of a bbbbb" LOL typical walker race lol.
Ahhhh, sure was nice to run good broke honest dogs lol.

 

[gunsmithkinks]

Zigzag zeke said"The only thing I hold against him is he runs walkers "

This is one BAD AZZ. pun intended.


You can see those Walker dogs sitting back on thier azz typical, while the mule goes to town like a junk yard dog on the cougar after bucking off his rider in New Mexico on a cougar hunt.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Haha I hear ya. Walkers yikes, those deer running sobs. They aren't much of a game dog in my opinion, they have too much running blood in them. Every walker dog guys had that hunted with us got a good deer breaking initiation manybtimes over before they got it figured out.
We ran a lot of plots fir bear dogs, and if any of them didn't mount up when the gun went off, we'll they got deleted from the pack let's say. We only fed dogs that got the job done each time, everytime. You had a few Blueticks I see. Those black and tan and Blueticks crosses make good coon and cat dogs.
One bear we were on a guy had 3 renegade deer running walkers leeft a good hot bear track fir a bunch of whitetail. We drove around lookin for his dogs and ran into an old hillbilly looking man about 80 years old. The guy is sing the dog asked if he'd seen any "walker dogs" and the old man replied and saud " sonny, I don't know a damn thing about walker dogs but about 4 beagle color dogs came through hete 2 hours ago, and I think they were speaking french, because the last time I saw 'em, they were on thier way to Britush Colombia Canada" the guybwho owned the dogs said "well son of a bbbbb" LOL typical walker race lol.
Ahhhh, sure was nice to run good broke honest dogs lol.

Always loved my Cameron blue ticks. Bred for 50 years to hunt Montana big game. Can't beat em. Nice to bump into another hounds man.