National BATFE - Biden Executive Action to Require Background Check on Serial Number-less Guns

[Mikej]

"Ghost guns" in the news again, in Portland this time: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...r-five-ar-15-rifles-during-search/ar-BB1ey6o3

Sounds like he had a P80 G19, among other things.

MSN can sure hype the bubblegum up! "Ghost Gun" Isn't that including guns that someone had obliterated the serial number now? Which is illegal. But a self manufactured lower isn't illegal and also called a ghost gun.

 

[CamoDeafie]

@The Resister ; I've asked this before... how does one legally renounce their U.S. Citizenship without becoming a Prohibited Person?
Because as far as I know, this is technically the only legal way for an American to withdraw their consent to be ruled by the Constitution and the various laws of the United States; but the problem is that renouncing citizenship seems to indicate placement into the "Prohibited Persons" class.

Edit. You're repeatedly talking about the Charter and Rights of Man and so forth, but... thats all symbolic if one doesn't show how to legally renounce Citizenship, without getting on Prohibited Persons list as gun owners.

 

[Dinglenutz]

If these jerks were serious they don't they make illegally trying to buy a gun a federal offense since states rarely prosecute.

If we/they were serious murderous people wouldn't be released back into society. The entire 'prohibited persons' shtick is essentially an admission that the legal system releases murderous people back into society.

 

[The Resister]

@The Resister ; I've asked this before... how does one legally renounce their U.S. Citizenship without becoming a Prohibited Person?
Because as far as I know, this is technically the only legal way for an American to withdraw their consent to be ruled by the Constitution and the various laws of the United States; but the problem is that renouncing citizenship seems to indicate placement into the "Prohibited Persons" class.

Edit. You're repeatedly talking about the Charter and Rights of Man and so forth, but... thats all symbolic if one doesn't show how to legally renounce Citizenship, without getting on Prohibited Persons list as gun owners.

Where have I advocated renouncing citizenship? A proclamation does not cause you to renounce your citizenship. The government is in breach of the social contract. You are demanding strict performance.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Where have I advocated renouncing citizenship? A proclamation does not cause you to renounce your citizenship. The government is in breach of the social contract. You are demanding strict performance.

Did you not say for people to withdraw their consent of governance by DC?
As far as I can tell, renouncing citizenship seems to be the only legally recognized way to withdraw consent of governance by DC.

Relatedly... did the founders not renounce their British citizenships to become a new nation? Similarily, was the same not true for the Confederated States of America?

 

[The Resister]

Did you not say for people to withdraw their consent of governance by DC?
As far as I can tell, renouncing citizenship seems to be the only legally recognized way to withdraw consent of governance by DC.

Relatedly... did the founders not renounce their British citizenships to become a new nation? Similarily, was the same not true for the Confederated States of America?

Again, if you read the charter, it does not anticipate a new country. It puts the onus on the government to make good on the social contract. It is the only path to victory. If the federal government wants to take your citizenship, you will have to decide if you understand what the Second Amendment is all about.

As a side note, the Democrats removed Rep. Marjorie Greene from her committee assignments and I hear that any Republican that supported Trump is going to face a similar fate. At least one district in Georgia has no voice in the process, just her marginal vote since she cannot be a part of the process. Maybe when that happens enough times, you might understand what the charter is about. If you do not want a voice, don't let me influence you. If you want to be bound by unconstitutional laws and get picked off one by one, who am I to judge?

Everybody is looking for a reason not to support the charter. There is not one. Well, if you want to become a slave, that is a reason not to support it.

Have a small edit for something I said earlier in this post. Here is a link:

House Democrats draw the line: No bipartisan cooperation with Republicans who questioned the election

After the Jan. 6 riot, some Democrats say they simply can't work with anyone who voted against certifying the election.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[SonicBlue03]

"Ghost guns" in the news again, in Portland this time: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...r-five-ar-15-rifles-during-search/ar-BB1ey6o3

Sounds like he had a P80 G19, among other things.

Only five?
Rookie.

 

[Caveman Jim]

You know @Melman is a troll right ? There is no way the posts he made in this thread are anything other than troll posts to get a response.

That's why he's been on my ignore list ever since his second post.

 

[rogerwilco]

Where have I advocated renouncing citizenship? A proclamation does not cause you to renounce your citizenship. The government is in breach of the social contract. You are demanding strict performance.

The government doesn't care about individuals making proclamations. Firearms rules/regs enforcement is 99% at the FFL level. Wake me up when an FFL decides to taunt the ATF by selling whatever they want to whomever they want...not going to happen. They got their FFL by playing by the government's rules and they will keep playing by those rules to keep their FFL.

 

[The Resister]

The government doesn't care about individuals making proclamations. Firearms rules/regs enforcement is 99% at the FFL level. Wake me up when an FFL decides to taunt the ATF by selling whatever they want to whomever they want...not going to happen. They got their FFL by playing by the government's rules and they will keep playing by those rules to keep their FFL.

Such shortsightedness will never be a benefit in the effort to maintain Liberty. The liberals win because they do not take the same attitude toward winning as you. Frederick Douglass was once a slave. He wrote:

"If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

The difference between Douglas and you is that Douglas position has proven to be accurate. Your position is not. Gun owners throw a few dollars at the big gun lobby that compromises with the gun grabbers. Then they throw a couple of dollars at the smaller organization going to bat for them. It's two steps forward and three steps back, our Liberties disappearing on the installment plan with the attitude of gun gurus saying "whew that was close. It could've been worse."

I am not deterred by those too afraid to ask questions before going into criticize mode. Rather I am embarrassed that gun owners are such poor students of history and none of them really read the cases that the gun lobbyists have convinced them to mean we are winning anything. So, I appreciate that you took the time to respond, just frustrated it was not an informed post. I would admonish you to ask questions next time before making false assumptions. The charter is not a petition; it is not a Constitution; it does not anticipate a new form of government. It is the genesis of a method that is historically proven to be effective.

 

[rogerwilco]

Such shortsightedness will never be a benefit in the effort to maintain Liberty.

I'm just telling you what is common sense: it's easier to implement a rule or regulation higher up the supply chain. You don't need to seize a single AR-15 to make them extremely hard to come by. Ban the sale of AR-15s at the FFL level and all of a sudden prices quadruple and nobody wants to sell what they have in their safe because they won't be able to buy a new one.

 

[Rkangel]

Only five?
Rookie.

If only they would pass a law that felons would obey...
Based on the article the man already had a felony record that made it illegal for him to possess firearms. Yet he had 5 ARs, 3 Glocks, 1 unspecified .45 and one 80% pistol. In addition to his previous felony record, he broke another nine felon-in-possession laws with serial numbered guns. I'm sure an executive order on the 80% receiver would have been the one he followed... or so the media and Biden would have you believe...
I'm just wondering what "other gun paraphernalia" is and how he got a (oooOOooohhhh) rifle scope... I mean clearly 10 illegally owned firearms wasn't enough. MSN needed the scary rifle scope cherry on top.

 

[The Resister]

I'm just telling you what is common sense: it's easier to implement a rule or regulation higher up the supply chain. You don't need to seize a single AR-15 to make them extremely hard to come by. Ban the sale of AR-15s at the FFL level and all of a sudden prices quadruple and nobody wants to sell what they have in their safe because they won't be able to buy a new one.

The government may have the power to infringe on your Rights; they lack the authority, however. Control is never common sense; it is the antithesis of it.

 

[The Resister]

If only they would pass a law that felons would obey...
Based on the article the man already had a felony record that made it illegal for him to possess firearms. Yet he had 5 ARs, 3 Glocks, 1 unspecified .45 and one 80% pistol. In addition to his previous felony record, he broke another nine felon-in-possession laws with serial numbered guns. I'm sure an executive order on the 80% receiver would have been the one he followed... or so the media and Biden would have you believe...
I'm just wondering what "other gun paraphernalia" is and how he got a (oooOOooohhhh) rifle scope... I mean clearly 10 illegally owned firearms wasn't enough. MSN needed the scary rifle scope cherry on top.

Between the time of this felon's release and the time he's found in possession of firearms, how many times did he rack up new violations of the law?

 

[Rkangel]

Between the time of this felon's release and the time he's found in possession of firearms, how many times did he rack up new violations of the law?

At least one more...attempted murder...
Another example on the long list of felons who don't obey laws. But congress seems to think passing more laws that felons ignore will somehow make us safer.

But we all know gun control isn't for our safety.

 

[The Resister]

At least one more...attempted murder...
Another example on the long list of felons who don't obey laws. But congress seems to think passing more laws that felons ignore will somehow make us safer.

But we all know gun control isn't for our safety.

I tried to go back and see if you specified what the guy served time for in the first place. Some crimes should be egregious enough to keep someone behind bars for life or, better, net the death penalty.

Other times, that felon's actions is an indictment against the so - called criminal justice system. Until we take measures to rehabilitate people while incarcerated, you keep doing the same old, you keep getting the same old. Where I live, more than half of all felons go on to commit another crime and become a recidivist within three years. I can only say so much, but you're looking at guys that went into prison the first time without a high school diploma, no job skills, and not a clue as to how to navigate daily living. Most of them had a drug habit as well. They left prison the same way. So, what did society think would happen?

Do you know what it takes to stop recidivism? Do you care?

 

[Rkangel]

I tried to go back and see if you specified what the guy served time for in the first place. Some crimes should be egregious enough to keep someone behind bars for life or, better, net the death penalty.

Other times, that felon's actions is an indictment against the so - called criminal justice system. Until we take measures to rehabilitate people while incarcerated, you keep doing the same old, you keep getting the same old. Where I live, more than half of all felons go on to commit another crime and become a recidivist within three years. I can only say so much, but you're looking at guys that went into prison the first time without a high school diploma, no job skills, and not a clue as to how to navigate daily living. Most of them had a drug habit as well. They left prison the same way. So, what did society think would happen?

Do you know what it takes to stop recidivism? Do you care?

I think we're on the same page, so I'm not sure if things were misinterpreted.

The article never specified anything beyond him being a convicted felon who was not allowed to possess firearms. He broke the law or laws that caused his original felony conviction. Regardless the nature of his previous felony, after his release he broke the law by attempting to murder someone. After the attempted murder they found that he had broken the law at least nine other times by way of multiple firearms possession charges. Clearly previous laws did not matter to him, existing gun and murder laws did not matter to him, incarceration didn't result in rehabilitation, and new gun laws would likely have been ignored as well.

I volunteered with youth corrections and rehabilitation programs for a while. Even in that relatively brief period I witnessed the extreme rate of recidivism. 50% was being generous. Unfortunately, many - even some of the kids who showed the most promise - still violated probation or even escalated to more serious crimes. I do not believe every felon is beyond rehabilitation, but I am also aware that not every felon will rehabilitate.

Do I know what it takes to stop recidivism? There were psychologists, academics, and case workers much more educated than me trying to figure that out long before and long after my time there. I could teach the kids skills. I could help them develop healthy talents and interests. I could lead by example. But I was not allowed to discuss redemption and that may be a big part of it.

 

[The Resister]

I think we're on the same page, so I'm not sure if things were misinterpreted.

The article never specified anything beyond him being a convicted felon who was not allowed to possess firearms. He broke the law or laws that caused his original felony conviction. Regardless the nature of his previous felony, after his release he broke the law by attempting to murder someone. After the attempted murder they found that he had broken the law at least nine other times by way of multiple firearms possession charges. Clearly previous laws did not matter to him, existing gun and murder laws did not matter to him, incarceration didn't result in rehabilitation, and new gun laws would likely have been ignored as well.

I volunteered with youth corrections and rehabilitation programs for a while. Even in that relatively brief period I witnessed the extreme rate of recidivism. 50% was being generous. Unfortunately, many - even some of the kids who showed the most promise - still violated probation or even escalated to more serious crimes. I do not believe every felon is beyond rehabilitation, but I am also aware that not every felon will rehabilitate.

Do I know what it takes to stop recidivism? There were psychologists, academics, and case workers much more educated than me trying to figure that out long before and long after my time there. I could teach the kids skills. I could help them develop healthy talents and interests. I could lead by example. But I was not allowed to discuss redemption and that may be a big part of it.

I think that we do know how to curtail recidivism. The problem is that we spend too much time fighting the liberals on gun control that we don't introduce those measures every time the liberals submit new gun control legislation. On this board, many of my posts got deleted because I did focus on those aspects of reducing recidivism and actually rehabilitating people so that they could be reasonably trusted. Nothing is 100 percent. The mods warn me to stick to gun control, but if we attached other legislation to gun control the same way the liberals got the Lautenberg Amendment passed, even if our ideas never became law, it would deter Democrats for voting for gun control when other serious solutions are built into the legislation.

 

[CamoDeafie]

It isn't an "either/or" question. Fact; in Free States, background checks and transfer fees aren't required for face-to-face gun purchases by residents of these States, at least for non NFA items.

 

[Lennie]

"Ghost guns" in the news again, in Portland this time: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crim...r-five-ar-15-rifles-during-search/ar-BB1ey6o3

Sounds like he had a P80 G19, among other things.

At the end of the article, this guy has prior felony conviction(s?). Why doesn't the headline scream "Convicted felon breaking the law again".