Basic Firearm Battery - in the city

[aksu747]

For in town use I'd have a carry handgun that stays on my person, and a 12 or 20 gauge equipped with a light and loaded with with no. 1 buck; at close range, nothing beats a shotgun. After that either an AR or a PCC, and you have to have a 22lr for cheap training and introducing new shooters.

I think in the confines of a home a handgun is more practical than a shotgun,it leaves your other hand free and it can't be easily taken out of your hands. Disarming someone who has a longun at point blank range is actually pretty easy to do with the right technique. Unless you have to retreat to your room I think for home defense a handgun is better unless you live in a huge house with thick walls,not to mention buckshot and other shotgun shells actually penetrates more than most people realize ,don't take my word for it though look at some drywall penetration tests.

 

[MrMillspecer]

 

[aksu747]

View attachment 463708

That's what a rifle is for, not for general home defense though.

 

[Squidly]

my pcc is my best choice for fast follow up shots, not horrendous overpenetration and federal HST is pretty impressive IMO. My CX4 is extremely short feeling which handles well in narrow, tight spaces. The rate at which 9mm and 45 lose speed is comforting to me. The bullet drop would be very helpful in missing unintended targets.

I also would go for an ar near dead last in my HD scenario. It just does not fit in with a scenario I can imagine. Then again, even as a suburban dweller, I have the luxury of choice.

My home defense firearm is a Kel-tec sub 2000 in .40. Federal 180 gr HP remain sub-sonic (marginally) in the 16" barrel. At the range, it's not quite hearing safe, but the rapport is much less that most other solutions. I figure losing all my hearing after the first discharge in my living room is not to my advantage. A better solution would be a can, but the legal implications could be ugly.
Opinions?

 

[Wombat of Doom]

My home defense firearm is a Kel-tec sub 2000 in .40. Federal 180 gr HP remain sub-sonic (marginally) in the 16" barrel. At the range, it's not quite hearing safe, but the rapport is much less that most other solutions. I figure losing all my hearing after the first discharge in my living room is not to my advantage. A better solution would be a can, but the legal implications could be ugly.
Opinions?

Buy a can, get a stamp, problem solved.

 

[Diamondback]

Re dedicated .22 rifles, you can get conversion-kits that drop into an AR. Two birds with one stone that way.

So basically the "core group" would start as:

• Midsize carry pistol (Commander-length 1911-equivalent size)
  
• 11.5"-12.5" AR-pistol and .22LR conversion-kit

From there in no particular order my next-phase additions would be:

• .22LR pistol
• Carbine- or rifle-length AR (can share .22 conv-kit with AR pistol)

If the primary "threat vector" is at home, I would focus Phase 3 on:

• Full/"service size" or longslide Home D handgun (Government-length 1911-equivalent size or bigger)

If the primary "threat vector" is away from home, I would instead focus Phase 3 on:

• Compact or subcompact "deep conceal" pistol (Officers'-length 1911-equivalent or smaller; also useful as Backup Gun)

Unless you're into sports that need other guns, this is how I would focus on Home/Personal D rack-loading on a purely practical level, with everything outside this list being a luxury; the only reason I would in principle leapfrog a milspec M4 to right behind a first carry pistol is the combination of personal belief that every citizen should own and be able to operate their country's basic service rifle and the practicality of "the more people own 'em, the less practical it becomes for the scumbag pols to grab 'em.

 

[MrMillspecer]

That's what a rifle is for, not for general home defense though.

My pistol on the nightstand is more for someone making it into my room at night or attacked in my sleep. The wrong noise in the night and I will grab the 18", 870 with a light and buckshot and extend mag. Real crazy and the AR comes out. But that's just me. I feel ok with a hi capacity pistol or a PCC to check things also at times. Anythings better than nothing. And it's nice to have options. I think a SBR or pcc would rock for home d myself.

 

[Squidly]

Buy a can, get a stamp, problem solved.

The legal problems come from over zealous prosecutors. "Ladies & gentlemen of the jury, we have here a rabid gun nut with a silencer just waiting to kill someone." You get it.

 

[titsonritz]

That's what a rifle is for, not for general
home defense though.

Tell that to this guy...
https://nypost.com/2017/04/04/man-who-killed-would-be-burglars-with-ar-15-wont-be-charged/
or someone who has lived through a home invasion by 4 or 6 crackheads. A carbine most definitely has a place in an HD scenario.

 

[aksu747]

Tell that to this guy...
https://nypost.com/2017/04/04/man-who-killed-would-be-burglars-with-ar-15-wont-be-charged/
or someone who has lived through a home invasion by 4 or 6 crackheads. A carbine most definitely has a place in an HD scenario.

If you can place shots well it doesn't matter what you use
Note also that house is brick so no concern for overpenetration.

 

[MrMillspecer]

All this ammo talk got me wondering how much penatration does a 5.56/ 45 grain hp have when shooting 2x 2" thick cedar boards. The ammo was Winchester white box hunting ammo. And the wood is a true 2" thick. It sailed through both pieces and smacked the metal behind it. It left around a quarter size hole out the back of the first board and slightly larger through the second board. At 10 yards.

Then I tried a 9mm Winchester HPs personal defense white box. It went through the first 2" and stuck in the second board. Definitely a smaller hole as well. Again at 10 yards.

The 5.56 penetrated more than I thought it would for being a 45 grain hollow point. But I was also surprised with the 9mm. I'm pretty sure the buckshot will make splinters. I can't find out for a month or so. It's nothing to scientifical and I didn't have any drywall.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

View attachment 463564

That wildey should work nicely. My elk hunting partner has one.

 

[GOG]

Although I live at my BOL, I used to live in the city. For that I'd suggest a .45ACP pistol with the largest capacity available that you can comfortably carry, a short barrel shotgun and a carbine of your choice.
And be the gray man.

 

[Caveman Jim]

The .300 Blackout seems like a good idea too me. Doesn't it use the same mag and bolt as well ? I use the 5.56 for cost savings and don't doubt it's stopping power like many. I've always believed in shot placement first. And the AR is so controllable that quick follow-up shots are easy.

Yes it does. I use the 20 round Pmags for the 300BLK & 30 round USGI's for the 5.56. That way I don't get them mixed up...

 

[Will_White]

I think in the confines of a home a handgun is more practical than a shotgun,it leaves your other hand free and it can't be easily taken out of your hands. Disarming someone who has a longun at point blank range is actually pretty easy to do with the right technique. Unless you have to retreat to your room I think for home defense a handgun is better unless you live in a huge house with thick walls,not to mention buckshot and other shotgun shells actually penetrates more than most people realize ,don't take my word for it though look at some drywall penetration tests.

I agree that within grappling range a handgun is the better choice which is why I put a carry handgun first, and I've also looked at drywall penetration tests which is why I went with #1 buckshot. No matter what if it can kill somebody it can go through drywall. You can't have both.

 

[aksu747]

I agree that within grappling range a handgun is the better choice which is why I put a carry handgun first, and I've also looked at drywall penetration tests which is why I went with #1 buckshot. No matter what if it can kill somebody it can go through drywall. You can't have both.

True but I'd rather only have to worry about one round missing vs all the pellets in a shell or several pellets from one shell.

 

[Will_White]

True but I'd rather only have to worry about one round missing vs all the pellets in a shell or several pellets from one shell.

Don't miss? And know your pattern?

 

[aksu747]

Don't miss? And know your pattern?

Easier said than done if all goes according to planning and training that's how it will be,but how often when things hit the fan do they go according to plan?
If you ask anyone in the military they will tell you it never goes according to plan.

 

[Diamondback]

If you ask anyone in the military they will tell you it never goes according to plan.

"No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy."--Unknown

"War is chaos, and Americans excel at it because they practice chaos on a daily basis."--Erwin Rommel

 

[USMC-03]

I know the OP said "not for hunting..."
But it is really tough to beat a .30-30 Carbine for all around short range rifle use.
The cartridge hits plenty hard , easy on recoil , easy to find too...
Plus like it or not looks can play a part in how people perceive you and your gun...A lever gun can be seen as less threatening...
Another choice in the "traditional looking rifle" category is the CZ 527 Carbine in either .556 or 7.62x39mm.

Please note that I am not saying to use either as a apartment defense gun...Just pointing out a rifle for "urban use" in say a civil emergency etc...
Andy

Add a good quality .38 Special mid-frame revolver to .30-30 and you have a great combo for the lesser trained city dweller. I'd also consider closely matching .22lr rifle and pistol for cheap practice.

And an afterthought - I'd also highly recommend a solid receiver peep sight on the lever gun in lieu of the buckhorn sight.