National ATF is going after FRT

[wired]

With all your previous posts on both threads on this subject. I almost think you are posting on behalf of the ATF.

Is that what the ATF does? Get on web pages and flip flop around? No. I am willing to ride a loophole and bureaucratic idiocy for all its worth but come one man, as my boss likes to say. Its over.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Back to paintball. Tournaments had set rate of fire to 15 per seconds because of several models being able to shoot much faster than that while being nominally "semiautomatic". With the FRT design, as far as I could see.. and I ain't got xray vision to see the human finger motions.. it looks like 15 per seconds is sort of close to what its actually doing... since research for paintball said average human finger could pull paintball guns' triggers 15 times a second. Working out at 60 seconds, thats 900 rounds a minute maximum. 10 a second is more realistic, and is rather doable with regular real light triggers, thats 600 rounds a minute on actual guns, maximum. A .50bmg M2 has a nominal rate of 500 rounds a minute. The M60 has a rate of 500-650 per minute. The MG42 was 1,400 wasn't it...

If the FRT-15 rate of fire with very light pulls from the finger is over 600 a minute.. it certainly would sound like the M249 which has a max of 850 per minute.

 

[rdb241]

Is that what the ATF does? Get on web pages and flip flop around? No. I am willing to ride a loophole and bureaucratic idiocy for all its worth but come one man, as my boss likes to say. Its over.

yes they do and never forget it! They don't need your help.

 

[wired]

Back to paintball. Tournaments had set rate of fire to 15 per seconds because of several models being able to shoot much faster than that while being nominally "semiautomatic". With the FRT design, as far as I could see.. and I ain't got xray vision to see the human finger motions.. it looks like 15 per seconds is sort of close to what its actually doing... since research for paintball said average human finger could pull paintball guns' triggers 15 times a second. Working out at 60 seconds, thats 900 rounds a minute maximum. 10 a second is more realistic, and is rather doable with regular real light triggers, thats 600 rounds a minute on actual guns, maximum. A .50bmg M2 has a nominal rate of 500 rounds a minute. The M60 has a rate of 500-650 per minute. The MG42 was 1,400 wasn't it...

If the FRT-15 rate of fire with very light pulls from the finger is over 600 a minute.. it certainly would sound like the M249 which has a max of 850 per minute.

My SIG Rattler runs 1200+ with the FRT. 30 rounds in 1.46 seconds. No buffer to slow things down.

 

[40Garand]

I've steered clear of the poser triggers for good reason. I don't support companies that are dumb enough to manufacture a part that they know damn well is going to get the ATF up on all 4s and pointed. It's like, hey we are going to stick our necks out just barely over the line by manufacturing this poser trigger and when chit hits the fan everybody goes down, customers included.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I've steered clear of the poser triggers for good reason. I don't support companies that are dumb enough to manufacture a part that they know damn well is going to get the ATF up on all 4s and pointed. It's like, hey we are going to stick our necks out just barely over the line by manufacturing this poser trigger and when chit hits the fan everybody goes down, customers included.

There's a reason companies haven't come out with an electronic trigger system for AR15s or similar can you imagine the collective pants pooping if one applied basic electronics and solenoids to an AR15 and get 900 rounds a minute without a "3rd pin" and with a standard sear/trigger look???

 

[wired]

There's a reason companies haven't come out with an electronic trigger system for AR15s or similar can you imagine the collective pants pooping if one applied basic electronics and solenoids to an AR15 and get 900 rounds a minute without a "3rd pin" and with a standard sear/trigger look???

There are several electronic AR triggers on the market.

 

[CountryGent]

I don't support companies that are dumb enough to manufacture a part that they know damn well is going to get the ATF up on all 4s and pointed.

Funny you mention it, because that is exactly why I stayed away from the Atkins device years ago. It was a cheapo plastic stock with a spring, but sold for a grand (give or take), in an era in which that monetary amount actually bought something. I remember thinking "they know they are eventually going to get spanked, so their cashing in now." No thanks.

 

[rdb241]

I've steered clear of the poser triggers for good reason. I don't support companies that are dumb enough to manufacture a part that they know damn well is going to get the ATF up on all 4s and pointed. It's like, hey we are going to stick our necks out just barely over the line by manufacturing this poser trigger and when chit hits the fan everybody goes down, customers included.

Trigger devices have been around for at 30 years that I can remember. How about the trigger spring assist device called the "Hellfire Trigger"? Came out way back in the mid 90s. How about the device you clamp onto the trigger gaurd and with a hand crank to go as fast as you can crank, again came out in the mid 90s. ATF Never had any issues with those old school trigger devices. Why now? The Hellfire trigger WAS the original bump fire.

 

[CamoDeafie]

There are several electronic AR triggers on the market.

Wat. Now I must know more!

 

[CountryGent]

Wat. Now I must know more!

Morbid curiosity got the better of me so I googled it. There is the DigiTrigger, for example.

 

[wired]

Wat. Now I must know more!

Yep, Digitrigger

 

[CountryGent]

I do have one question on digital AR triggers: why? There are a million trigger options for the platform. And an adulthood spent in the tech sector has made me realize the wisdom of Dark Helmet's statement of "Out of order?! Even in the future nothing works." Put another way, mechanical triggers work; the microprocessor based ones probably do to, but I'd imagine more likely to have an issue. But, whatever.

 

[Diamondback]

Back to paintball. Tournaments had set rate of fire to 15 per seconds because of several models being able to shoot much faster than that while being nominally "semiautomatic". With the FRT design, as far as I could see.. and I ain't got xray vision to see the human finger motions.. it looks like 15 per seconds is sort of close to what its actually doing... since research for paintball said average human finger could pull paintball guns' triggers 15 times a second. Working out at 60 seconds, thats 900 rounds a minute maximum. 10 a second is more realistic, and is rather doable with regular real light triggers, thats 600 rounds a minute on actual guns, maximum. A .50bmg M2 has a nominal rate of 500 rounds a minute. The M60 has a rate of 500-650 per minute. The MG42 was 1,400 wasn't it...

If the FRT-15 rate of fire with very light pulls from the finger is over 600 a minute.. it certainly would sound like the M249 which has a max of 850 per minute.

Thompson with Da Switch is 600-900, depending on model... they redesigned the Blish locks to throttle the 1928's on down because more than ten .45ACP's into you per second is kinda a waste of ammo.

 

[wired]

Trigger devices have been around for at 30 years that I can remember. How about the trigger spring assist device called the "Hellfire Trigger"? Came out way back in the mid 90s. How about the device you clamp onto the trigger gaurd and with a hand crank to go as fast as you can crank, again came out in the mid 90s. ATF Never had any issues with those old school trigger devices. Why now? The Hellfire trigger WAS the original bump fire.

The difference is the way the FRT activates the trigger. How many semi auto firearms have safety sears? I can think of two. The SKS and the Winchester 100. There may be more but there are precious few for a reason. Seems like a sensible safety item. The ATF considers them to be auto sears. One reason why the SKS is so easy to modify to run full auto. If one were so inclined. The hammer cannot fall until the bolt closes. The FRT has a safety sear that activates the trigger when the bolt closes. No hammer until the bolt closes

 

[CamoDeafie]

I do have one question on digital AR triggers: why? There are a million trigger options for the platform. And an adulthood spent in the tech sector has made me realize the wisdom of Dark Helmet's statement of "Out of order?! Even in the future nothing works." Put another way, mechanical triggers work; the microprocessor based ones probably do to, but I'd imagine more likely to have an issue. But, whatever.

Well the Digitrigger one claims it also has a fully mechanical trigger backup.

 

[wired]

I do have one question on digital AR triggers: why? There are a million trigger options for the platform. And an adulthood spent in the tech sector has made me realize the wisdom of Dark Helmet's statement of "Out of order?! Even in the future nothing works." Put another way, mechanical triggers work; the microprocessor based ones probably do to, but I'd imagine more likely to have an issue. But, whatever.

Faster lock time and infinitely adjustable pull and trigger weight adjustment.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Far as I could tell, the Digitrigger is also a Binary Trigger. But most interestingly.. it does seem to have the same concept of forced reset like the FRT... although it claims to be able to toggle between "semiauto and binary" which might raise a red flag with the ATF with regards to Binary triggers

 

[rdb241]

The difference is the way the FRT activates the trigger. How many semi auto firearms have safety sears? I can think of two. The SKS and the Winchester 100. There may be more but there are precious few for a reason. Seems like a sensible safety item. The ATF considers them to be auto sears. One reason why the SKS is so easy to modify to run full auto. If one were so inclined. The hammer cannot fall until the bolt closes. The FRT has a safety sear that activates the trigger when the bolt closes. No hammer until the bolt closes

you are a plant..................................................................................................................................................

 

[wired]

you are a plant..................................................................................................................................................

Worse, I'm an engineer.