ATF investigated 20 background check denials in 2015

[Goosebrown]

166,000 NICS denials. 20 prosecutions. And in that time not ONE mass shooter legally acquired their murder weapon.

Yet we need stricter gun purchase laws? When 166,000 offenders fall in their laps?

Seriously?

Do they need them wrapped with a bow on their heads? They filled out a form with an address and phone number. How easy does it get to find EXACTLY the people the cry about.

NRA-ILA | DOJ IG Report Undermines Case for New Laws, Gun Control Narrative

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[308]

They need to add a new line to the 4473 below the "are you a fugitive from justice" asking "do you intend to use this firearm to commit a crime or murder infidels"...problem solved

 

[Stomper]

We all KNOW its about defacto registration without "legally" calling it registration.

 

[308]

We all KNOW its about defacto registration without "legally" calling it registration.

No way mang!
Why does ATF Form 4473 ask for race and ethnicity? | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

 

[Stomper]

Yes way, MANG!

 

[Member 3687]

They also do not say much about the mistakes made during the process. At the shop I worked at we have had folks denied on the first call then 2 days later get a call back with an approval talk about getting all the info you can from them to cover you're A$$.

No it did not happen often but a few times. Or the customer that got denied who where normal customers of ours for years so when they followed up found out NICS made a mistake as in wrong person same name.

That's when they would get their Concealed permit so as to not have to deal with the process.

So how many were mistakes in that number.

 

[jbett98]

My belief is that the final say on whether to go ahead and prosecute by the US Attorney's Office is determined on if the person who was denied has any money they can confiscate.
If you're a broke low life scumbag criminal, no worries, but if you have sizable assets, then here they come knocking.

 

[IronMonster]

After my first denial I started doing research and found that by the ATF's own's account as many as 40% of denials may be erroneous. I have carry cards for both Washington and Oregon, have a pile of NFA items. About 85% of the time I get delayed and about half of those I get denied and have to appeal them. I have had transactions that took over a year to get finished and in the 5 years or so I have been dealing with this I have spent around $15,000 on attorneys fees and am currently suing the FBI because they cant seem to get my records straight. I would guess I have had around ten deny's. It seems like there is no rhyme nor reason to what happens after I get one. I have had the ATF call the store within a few days after the 4473 was submitted and then the deny has been reversed and at the other extreme I have had my appeal denied after months and then have to call in the big guns to get it sorted. To be fair I at one point did have a mark on my record that was a prohibiting factor so I know what my issues are. However you would think that once you had your rights back you had them back. Its not been the case for me. It has been an expensive and constant struggle to ensure my right to own a firearm. If I would not have been able to spend the dough on a good attorney I would have just been screwed as there is nothing an individual can do to set things straight if the FBI wants to dick you around.

 

[IronMonster]

Another thing is it really limits what I can do. Knowing I have a pretty good chance of getting denied I really can only deal with one of the couple of FFL's who knows and has been through my mess before. Even then its not really fair to them. Like I said I had one transaction that took over a year, during that time the FFL has to hold this firearm that I have already paid for. I cant buy anything used with I594 for fear that it will cause a mess and its hard to explain to someone "Hey, I really am not a prohibited person but I very likely could get denied"

Its a mess, It could very simply be solved by someone at the FBI spending a few minutes to correct my records but that is not the way the system works. Instead every transaction over years has become a drawn out battle with lawyers, over and over and over. I can tell you first hand, the background check system is a tool that can be used to keep people from buying guns if they choose to use it that way and there is next to nothing you can do about it.

 

[rick benjamin]

Been living in the same house for over 30 years.
My area went from county to city.
My drivers license shows Boring Oregon, my CC shows Damascus Oregon.
No problem till last month, maybe a layer of automation?

 

[308]

Been living in the same house for over 30 years.
My area went from county to city.
My drivers license shows Boring Oregon, my CC shows Damascus Oregon.
No problem till last month, maybe a layer of automation?

Probably because Damascus isn't Damascus anymore and will soon be called Happy Valley...at least that's the rumor

 

[The Heretic]

They also do not say much about the mistakes made during the process. At the shop I worked at we have had folks denied on the first call then 2 days later get a call back with an approval talk about getting all the info you can from them to cover you're A$$.

No it did not happen often but a few times. Or the customer that got denied who where normal customers of ours for years so when they followed up found out NICS made a mistake as in wrong person same name.

That's when they would get their Concealed permit so as to not have to deal with the process.

So how many were mistakes in that number.

That's why I always put my SSN on the form even though it isn't required.

But I probably don't need to - my name, both first and last, and especially the combination of the two, is not common at all. Then add that my first name is spelled in such a way that people mistake me for female before they meet me, combined with putting the gender on the form, makes it very unlikely that someone with my name is on a list for denial. I think there are maybe at most 20 people in the USA with my name, then you add my middle name which is a very rare family name, and no one else has my name - at least not in the USA.

I guess my biggest risk is if someone stole my identity, but that doesn't actually happen very often. Had it happen to a coworker; someone filed a tax return using his ID and got a refund, so his taxes every year are a hassle.

 

[The Heretic]

Been living in the same house for over 30 years.
My area went from county to city.
My drivers license shows Boring Oregon, my CC shows Damascus Oregon.
No problem till last month, maybe a layer of automation?

The state DMV doesn't know their anal orifice from a hole in the ground.

When I bought my car the dealer noticed my license had the address rubbed off, so he sent in for a replacement along with the title/etc.

He also put my mailing address down.

So now my ODL has my mailing address in Beaverton combined with my residential address in Newberg - two different street addresses, but one city - Beaverton. Several times this has caused a sharp eyed FFL to question the discrepancy when I put the right address on the 4473. But it always goes through.

I hope when they get around to confiscating guns they go to my mailing address first.

 

[cigars]

166,000 NICS denials. 20 prosecutions. And in that time not ONE mass shooter legally acquired their murder weapon.

Yet we need stricter gun purchase laws? When 166,000 offenders fall in their laps?

Seriously?

Do they need them wrapped with a bow on their heads? They filled out a form with an address and phone number. How easy does it get to find EXACTLY the people the cry about.

NRA-ILA | DOJ IG Report Undermines Case for New Laws, Gun Control Narrative

According to the Obama administration it's about who they can control, which are law abiding citizens. Chew on that.

 

[Member 3687]

I never got denied but delayed a lot so that is the reason I got my Idaho Canceled permit even though I had permits from other states making it valid to carry in Idaho. I have a very common last name and my first could be a guy or gals name with a not so common spelling but still would get delayed.

I was a licensed dealer for 7 years, in two branches of the military, I have permits in several states and worked in a shop for almost 12 years yet like others I would still get delayed.

But the best story I heard was a buddy of mine who owns a shop with an ffl in his name got delayed transferring a gun to his personal collection. He carried open at the time and does not have a permit or believe in them and now Idaho does not require one.

He was shocked at first but then remember he was dealing with the government.

 

[billdeserthills]

They also do not say much about the mistakes made during the process. At the shop I worked at we have had folks denied on the first call then 2 days later get a call back with an approval talk about getting all the info you can from them to cover you're A$$.

No it did not happen often but a few times. Or the customer that got denied who where normal customers of ours for years so when they followed up found out NICS made a mistake as in wrong person same name.

That's when they would get their Concealed permit so as to not have to deal with the process.

So how many were mistakes in that number.

You think that is a valid mistake?
I once called in a guy who was supposedly born in Texas, but could not read or write english--I explained all that to the NICS/FBI scum, who promptly cleared him. He bought 5 ak-47s and about a half hour later I got a call back from NICS/FBI "OMG We made a mistake, is it too late to get that gun back from that guy?"

 

[The Heretic]

You think that is a valid mistake?
I once called in a guy who was supposedly born in Texas, but could not read or write english--I explained all that to the NICS/FBI scum, who promptly cleared him. He bought 5 ak-47s and about a half hour later I got a call back from NICS/FBI "OMG We made a mistake, is it too late to get that gun back from that guy?"

You can refuse to sell based on your own intuition though can't you?

 

[billdeserthills]

Been living in the same house for over 30 years.
My area went from county to city.
My drivers license shows Boring Oregon, my CC shows Damascus Oregon.
No problem till last month, maybe a layer of automation?

Here's the 'big secret' that the ATF wouldn't allow me to tell my clients--As long as all the info on you're drivers license matches the info you write on the form, you are good to go

I used to have to tell my un-paid helpers to make sure the client's info matched--Before giving me their form to run, in order to keep my delayed pile smaller, at the gun shows--Of course as an FFL it would be illegal for me to say that

 

[billdeserthills]

You can refuse to sell based on your own intuition though can't you?

Sure, if I was a paranoid @ss hole who didn't bring a truckload of guns to sell at the gun show

Should I also tell the repeat clients, who bought many guns at almost every gun show that they were suspicious as well??

Matter of fact, fellas much like yourself, who have more than 5 guns--Is that also suspicious?? Who needs more than one gun??

 

[The Heretic]

Sure, if I was a paranoid @ss hole who didn't bring a truckload of guns to sell at the gun show

Should I also tell the repeat clients, who bought many guns at almost every gun show that they were suspicious as well??

Matter of fact, fellas much like yourself, who have more than 5 guns--Is that also suspicious?? Who needs more than one gun??

That is up to you.

If you thought he was suspicious enough to question the decision of NICS/FBI and mention it to them, then that should be enough for you to find some excuse to not sell to the person.

If you want to say "meh - not my problem", then that is your decision too - but you can't blame NICS/FBI for your decision to go ahead and sell if you thought they were making a mistake. You could have just said to them "come back in a week" or given some other excuse.