Armed ATF Agents Show up at Gun Owner's Home Unannounced, to Inspect Lawfully Purchased Guns

[The Heretic]

I'm no legal expert but I would guess the judge giving them a search warrant based on him buying to guns in one day and zero evidence of any crime is probably within one percentage point of zero.

Depends on the judge. Unfortunately.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

the mere fact that they even use this interrogation tactic as a means in which to control the individual that they were questioning. It is not acceptable especially if the individual in question did not commit a crime.

I really fell like you don't watch many videos of police interaction with people they are "interrogating" if you feel that "If you say no we will just have to come back" is that over the top and how are they supposed to know if he committed a crime or not if they don't investigate and ask questions?

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

If he believes it's less than 100%, then it is a bluff, entrapment, lie, whatever you want to call it.

What the courts have called it id "Totally legal" because the police (including the ATF) have NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to not lie to you


And "entrapment"?

 

[Camelfilter]

Saw this today. I have no idea of how legit it is and it is not dated, but if it's real, it's a good thing.


View attachment 1248081

View attachment 1248082

Its from there Facebook page. https://m.facebook.com/BenCoWASheriff/

Was also quoted in the Tri-City Herald today, July 28th 2022.

https://www.tri-cityherald.com/news/local/article263901647.html

 

[ilikegunspdx]

.

What the courts have called it id "Totally legal" because the police (including the ATF) have NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to not lie to you


And "entrapment"?

Seems you must really love the ATF since you keep defending this illegal action.

 

[RobMa]

I really fell like you don't watch many videos of police interaction with people they are "interrogating" if you feel that "If you say no we will just have to come back" is that over the top and how are they supposed to know if he committed a crime or not if they don't investigate and ask questions?

Sorry sir, I was both a county and state LEO... and as such there was no need for me to "watch many videos" to interpret the situation...

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

.

Seems you must really love the ATF since you keep defending this illegal action.

ooohhhhh nooooess you caught me!

 

[RobMa]

I really fell like you don't watch many videos of police interaction with people they are "interrogating" if you feel that "If you say no we will just have to come back" is that over the top and how are they supposed to know if he committed a crime or not if they don't investigate and ask questions?

They "we" did not base our investigation on going to the potential suspects home to question them, we first investigated all avenues to see whether we wanted to proceed any further and then and only then we would question the individual in question.

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

They "we" did not base our investigation on going to the potential suspects home to question them, we first investigated all avenues to see whether we wanted to proceed any further and then and only then we would question the individual in question.

And you know that they didn't do that in this case how?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

ooohhhhh nooooess you caught me!

It's pretty obvious when you constantly defend illegal gun control action by the ATF against lawful gun owners. Would you like them to visits u next. I doubt it.

Are you against the second amendment, or rule of law, or are you just a fan of illegal gun control methods by over reaching ATF agents?

 

[RobMa]

And you know that they didn't do that in this case how?

This is not cloak and dagger, if they had prob cause or real evidence of a crime this would have been a non-issue and a judge would have issued a warrant, it's not that complicated...
Forgive me but it seems that you are purposely trying to be argumentative and that is counterproductive to a coherent and productive discussion...

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

It's pretty obvious when you constantly defend illegal gun control action by the ATF against lawful gun owners. Would you like them to visits u next. I doubt it.

Are you against the second amendment, or rule of law, or are you just a fan of illegal gun control methods by over reaching ATF agents?

Where did I defend "illegal gun control action by the ATF against lawful gun owners"

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

This is not cloak and dagger, if they had prob cause or real evidence of a crime this would have been a non-issue and a judge would have issued a warrant, it's not that complicated...
Forgive me but it seems that you are purposely trying to be argumentative and that is counterproductive to a coherent and productive discussion...

There was a cop in PHX back in the mid 90's that had a great arrest record, so much so that he got a very glowing article in the AZ republic. What he would do is when there was a report of drug activity he would wait till the hottish part of the day and than go nock on the door of the house in question and than just stand there BS'ing with who ever opened the door about everything except the suspicion of drug activity. After maybe 20 or 30 min he would comment about how hot it was and ask if he could just step inside for a second to cool off. You might be surprised at how many times he was invited in to see drugs or paraphernalia (illegal at the time in AZ) and everyone in the house ends up in jail.

Sorry for not hitching my wagon to the lynch mob on this one, and even sorrier that the only way this can be a " coherent and productive discussion" is for everyone to agree

 

[The Heretic]

There was a cop in PHX back in the mid 90's that had a great arrest record, so much so that he got a very glowing article in the AZ republic. What he would do is when there was a report of drug activity he would wait till the hottish part of the day and than go nock on the door of the house in question and than just stand there BS'ing with who ever opened the door about everything except the suspicion of drug activity. After maybe 20 or 30 min he would comment about how hot it was and ask if he could just step inside for a second to cool off. You might be surprised at how many times he was invited in to see drugs or paraphernalia (illegal at the time in AZ) and everyone in the house ends up in jail.

This is why I said the guy in the vid made the right decision:

Do NOT let the LEOs inside if they don't have a warrant.

They already know you bought the guns in question, so what immediate and tangible harm is there in retrieving the guns and bringing them outside, to show them that you did not make a straw purchase?

You do not want LEOs walking around inside your house noting all the other guns and whatever else you may have, so they can come charge you with something, or come back later with a warrant based on what they saw. You don't want them lying to some anti-gun judge, getting a warrant on a wink and a nod, then coming back and tearing apart your house.

 

[The Heretic]

 

[brucekr]

This is why I said the guy in the vid made the right decision:

Do NOT let the LEOs inside if they don't have a warrant.

They already know you bought the guns in question, so what immediate and tangible harm is there in retrieving the guns and bringing them outside, to show them that you did not make a straw purchase?

You do not want LEOs walking around inside your house noting all the other guns and whatever else you may have, so they can come charge you with something, or come back later with a warrant based on what they saw. You don't want them lying to some anti-gun judge, getting a warrant on a wink and a nod, then coming back and tearing apart your house.

I agree with you for the most part.
I bought two handguns the same day a few years ago and significantly more between then and now. If the ATF showed up on my door asking to see one of those handguns, I would probably bring it out. Yeah, I think it's a dirtbag approach from them with no probable cause (for criminal activity) to show up, but if it clears my name from any potential list for a 'straw purchase task force' or something, I'd value that over the overreach. Now, I understand that my compliance further normalizes the behavior, but I personally want guns out of criminals' hands. I'm not referring to the above discussion about people that have paid their debt to society. I'm talking about the gang bangers in Chicago, Philly, and the other democratically controlled cesspools that have no regard for life airing it out in the streets every day. I'm a law abiding peaceful gun owner exercising my rights, and the population of derelicts that sway society and our government to encroach my rights, I have little regard for.

I know there is fallacy in my logic, but just trying to be honest.

 

[RobMa]

This is why I said the guy in the vid made the right decision:

Do NOT let the LEOs inside if they don't have a warrant.

They already know you bought the guns in question, so what immediate and tangible harm is there in retrieving the guns and bringing them outside, to show them that you did not make a straw purchase?

You do not want LEOs walking around inside your house noting all the other guns and whatever else you may have, so they can come charge you with something, or come back later with a warrant based on what they saw. You don't want them lying to some anti-gun judge, getting a warrant on a wink and a nod, then coming back and tearing apart your house.

There in lies the problem, that they would be in your house on a fishing expedition purposely looking for something to get you on. This is why they need to be reigned in, this is why we are supposed to have rights against these types of things but the AFT has been weaponized against gun owners and until this is seriously addressed it's not going to get any better, if fact it's probably going to get worse.

 

[The Heretic]

I have bought a lot of guns over the past ten years, and if they want to see each and every one of them, they will need to get a warrant.

I've only once bought two handguns at the same time at the same FFL, and the second was bought on a semi-whim as a pistol I had been looking at previously and noticed while doing a private transfer in that shop.

I don't think the ATF is going to come looking for a 460V and a Beretta semi as likely candidates for straw purchases, but they might. They won't find either one, and I can point them to the FFL who transferred them in a private sale, so I would just tell them to go there and look at their records. Both guns were kept by me for years and sold later, so no straw purchase there - I just eventually decided neither gun was one I wanted to keep for various reasons.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Klickitat county sheriffs statement on the illegal ATF visits (this info has been posted by others before):

Sheriff: Residents should tell ATF agents conducting warrantless gun inspections to leave

A Washington state sheriff recently advised residents in his county that if agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) come to their homes without a search warrant asking to inspect their firearms, they can tell them to leave their property.

amp.washingtontimes.com

 

[ilikegunspdx]

As others have reported this illegal gun control action has even been brought up in the US Congress. I can't believe the poster who is defending ATF's illegal action against a lawful gun owner who has done nothing wrong.

GOP lawmaker calls on ATF to explain video of agents asking firearms owner for gun serial numbers

A recent doorbell video recording from a Delaware resident prompted a Republican lawmaker to question why agents from the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms asked a legal firearm owner for his weapons’ serial numbers without a warrant.

amp.washingtontimes.com