Oregon Measure 114 litigation

[toast]

Even if a distributor refused to ship a pistol without magazines to a local FFL, it would still be possible to find a non-local FFL or private seller on GB who would be willing to do it via transfer -- either with swapped 10 round mags or with no mag included.

Even without a magazine, most semi-autos can be used to fire a single round, which makes it a.) functional and b.) compliant with any applicable mag capacity laws when a magazine is not present.

Too bad we won't be able to complete such a transfer without a permit to purchase, which leaves me out.

I have never spent 5 minutes worrying about mag capacity. Permit to purchase, on the other hand, means my collection is complete. That's the part of 114 that has kept me worried (and buying).

 

[Ura-Ki]

Even if a distributor refused to ship a pistol without magazines to a local FFL, it would still be possible to find a non-local FFL or private seller on GB who would be willing to do it via transfer -- either with swapped 10 round mags or with no mag included.

Even without a magazine, a semi-auto can be used to fire a single round, which makes it a.) functional and b.) compliant with any applicable mag capacity laws when a magazine is not present.

Too bad we won't be able to complete such a transfer without a permit to purchase, which leaves me out.

I have never spent 5 minutes worrying about mag capacity. Permit to purchase, on the other hand, means my collection is complete. That's the part of 114 that has kept me worried (and buying).

Your part about a semi being able to fire a single round is incorrect, ( and a YUGE part of our defense argument) there are many semi autos with mag disconnects which absolutely WILL NOT fire with our a mag in the mag well!

This makes it an essential part of the firearm, and part of the reason mags are considered a gun for all intents and purposes, and why the courts are having to do all the mental gymnastics around it, if it's an essential firearm part, then they cannot ban it!

 

[toast]

Your part about a semi being able to fire a single round is incorrect, ( and a YUGE part of our defense argument) there are many semi autos with mag disconnects which absolutely WILL NOT fire with our a mag in the mag well!

This makes it an essential part of the firearm, and part of the reason mags are considered a gun for all intents and purposes, and why the courts are having to do all the mental gymnastics around it, if it's an essential firearm part, then they cannot ban it!

Yep, I realized that was a mistake and edited it before your post. You caught me!

 

[Librarian]

This makes it an essential part of the firearm, and part of the reason mags are considered a gun for all intents and purposes, and why the courts are having to do all the mental gymnastics around it, if it's an essential firearm part, then they cannot ban it!

I don't think we want to go down that specific path; it would lead to serial numbers on magazines, and restrictions to sale only by FFLs.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I don't think we want to go down that specific path; it would lead to serial numbers on magazines, and restrictions to sale only by FFLs.

I think he means it's an essential part for function of the firearm such as trigger or barrel (not trying to put words in urakis' mouth, just saying that's how I interpret it). Mark smith has some good videos explaining this and previous scotus precedents around it. Banning the mags effectively bans a whole category of weapons, something raschio explained very well in his ruling and again mark smith spoke to in terms of Heller, etc.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I don't think we want to go down that specific path; it would lead to serial numbers on magazines, and restrictions to sale only by FFLs.

We already went that way, with Federal Firearms Act 1938 that CGA 1968 repealed most of; it had language indicating parts are firearms

https://homicide.northwestern.edu/docs_fk/homicide/laws/national_firearms_act_of_1938.pdf

Edit , excerpt from pdf, bold added. "(3) the term "firearms" means any weapon, by whatever name known, which is designed to expel a projectile or projectiles by the action of an explosive and a firearm muffler or a firearm silencer, or any part or parts of such weapon."

 

[solv3nt]

Yep, I realized that was a mistake and edited it before your post. You caught me!

@toast got toasted.

 

[toast]

@toast got toasted.

And I had corrected it within 1 minute of posting! Ura-ki must have a shot timer on his reply button or something...

 

[3MTA3]

And I had corrected it within 1 minute of posting! Ura-ki must have a shot timer on his reply button or something...

On the bright side you have achieved the NWFA "Burnt Toast Award For Accidentally Making A Mistake In a Thread That @Ura-Ki Participates In". We've all been there.

 

[Mono1]

On the bright side you have achieved the NWFA "Burnt Toast Award For Accidentally Making A Mistake In a Thread That @Ura-Ki Participates In". We've all been there.

And YES. We've all been there.

 

[Mono1]

On the bright side you have achieved the NWFA "Burnt Toast Award For Accidentally Making A Mistake In a Thread That @Ura-Ki Participates In". We've all been there.

I Liked the @solv3nt Version better before it got Edited.

 

[3MTA3]

I Liked the @solv3nt Version better before it got Edited.

It was a play on the corrected post. I was curious to see if anyone caught it - I was expecting @Ura-Ki or @solv3nt to catch it. As a result you have been awarded the NWFA "Beat @Ura-Ki To The Punch (It Will Never Happen Again)" award

 

[Mono1]

you have been awarded the NWFA "Beat @Ura-Ki To The Punch (It Will Never Happen Again)" award

 

[Ura-Ki]

Why is everybody always pickin on Me?

View: https://youtu.be/-t7GNMlDb_I?si=xLs9ObM-LNLHd5qU

 

[toast]

Ooooh, awards season! It's an honor just to be here...

As for the thread derailment -- sorry. But at least I was TRYING to stay on topic! (I do have some family members that have a really hard time with that. )

 

[arakboss]

Your part about a semi being able to fire a single round is incorrect, ( and a YUGE part of our defense argument) there are many semi autos with mag disconnects which absolutely WILL NOT fire with our a mag in the mag well!

This makes it an essential part of the firearm, and part of the reason mags are considered a gun for all intents and purposes, and why the courts are having to do all the mental gymnastics around it, if it's an essential firearm part, then they cannot ban it!

Many firearms don't need a magazine to fire.

Edit: If the State wanted to ban sales of firearms that don't have a mag disconnect safety feature (some States have already done this), what is our argument? We are currently acting as if a firearm won't function without a mag so there should be little opposition to having all firearms for sale include one. Truth is a majority of firearms don't have a mag disconnect safety feature and will fire without a magazine installed.

I wish we had a better argument for not having a mag ban. The fact that some firearms have an easily defeatable or removable mag disconnect safety feature seems like a weak argument.

 

[Mono1]

Ooooh, awards season! It's an honor just to be here...

Make sure you dress for it.

 

[gearhead]

Many firearms don't need a magazine to fire.

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f16XSB2cORg&pp=ygUfdGhpcyBpcyBteSByaWZsZSB0aGlzIGlzIG15IGd1bg%3D%3D

 

[arakboss]

What if the State did something really crazy and banned the sales of firearms with threaded barrels (far out, I know)? I could make a pretty good argument that a barrel is a necessary part of most firearms. The State could argue that a barrel may be necessary but a threaded barrel is not. This seems to be the path the State is taking with the mag ban. They agree that a mag (or something with the same exterior dimensions of a mag), may be necessary for some firearms to fire. But they believe the mag or other device, doesn't need to hold more than 10rnds.

I would like to see our argument not be dependent on whether a part of a firearm is necessary or not. Otherwise they could ban all sorts of Mall Ninja accessories like sights, grips, lasers, lights, and just about anything else we commonly add to our firearms. They could even ban gas tubes and pistons.

 

[64MercurysRule]

On the bright side you have achieved the NWFA "Burnt Toast Award For Accidentally Making A Mistake In a Thread That @Ura-Ki Participates In". We've all been there.

Toast has his own theme song ........

View: https://youtu.be/c0NdwzdOLkE?si=N_-dXsV0pFKUnCXa