Arizona SWAT shoots marine, new developments

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by dmancornell, May 20, 2011.

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  1. RB87

    RB87
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  2. armedredneck

    armedredneck
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    That's a very plausible scenario. And it did look like a hit.
     
  3. armedredneck

    armedredneck
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    Pro Libertate: "What Were You Guys Thinking? Why Did You Kill Him?"

    "Why, why did you kill him?" a traumatized Vanessa Guerena begged to know as she was interrogated in a makeshift "command center" by detectives from the same Sheriff's Office that had just slaughtered her husband Jose. Her questioners, eager to exploit her trauma to extract information, initially refused to give her a straightforward answer.

    Welcome to the new America.
     
  4. Bazooka Joe

    Bazooka Joe
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    Domestic terrorism wears a badge.

    I'm sure that the Taliban tells Afghans that it does what it does for the good of the people, too.
     
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  5. Reco

    Reco
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    I guess Flash bangs were ruled out do to "Women and Children" in the home so it was ok to go all trigger happy (70 shots) when the suspect was armed....in his own home.. the fact he was a US Marine didnt make them think hey he might protect his family if we kick his door in!..nah The SWAT team didnt even enter they got to the door and unloaded and they had a blastic shield too. If the guy never fired a shot had weapon on safety, seems like the entry team was in the mind set to down him from the word go.
     
  6. Grunwald

    Grunwald
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    Again, another example of a search warrant that could have been executed peacefully. I find these profoundly disturbing as it is the police and not the suspects who are escalating the situation to the point where everyone's lives are at risk.
    I will give cops a ton of leeway to use force in response to suspects that deserve it, but these guys are not responding, they are being the aggressors.

    For example when Rodney King got the crap kicked out of him, I did not have a problem with it. The other guys who were in the car with him surrendered and were unharmed. He was aggressive and got stomped. The cops were in a reactionary mode.
     
  7. dmancornell

    dmancornell
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    Civilian lives are worthless. You didn't get that memo? "Officer safety" is the euphemism used to justify unlimited violence to terrorize civilians into submission. Example: Miami cops shoot a harmless female protestor in the face with a rubber bullet, then laugh about it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0

    You gotta wonder if the geniuses in the SWAT teams ever realized that aggressive home invasions might trigger a violent response from the homeowner, putting everyone involved at increased risk. But hey, they get to strap on tacticool gear and play Delta Farce on the taxpayer dime, so the risk is worth it? :confused:
     
  8. KRISSTDI

    KRISSTDI
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    The local police went overboard here. I saw nowhere did the identify themselves.
    Only other thing I see is possibly all of us not getting the entire story. Who is to say that maybe this Veteran knew or saw something he shouldn't have and thus the police having to take action to kill him? We just don't know. It really looks like a hit. Sad but true. 60 body hits is way to much for any trained LEO.
     
  9. Barefoot343

    Barefoot343
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    wow, that is unbelivable. I just can't believe the updated story, the fact that swat might plant a gun, even if they didn't it is still not justifiable. There is no holding back truth, it will eventually work its way out.
     
  10. jvbutter

    jvbutter
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    I just dont get why they bust in and start shooting... Was it a drug raid??? do they no Intel on the house and its occupants??? gun or no gun in his hands... seems alot of backup for a piecefull family at home
     
  11. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux
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    I hope that she gets rich and it teaches PD's around the country that this kind of behavior is unacceptable. They're the one's escalating the tension of the situation. It's only a matter of time before they force a homeowner to shoot them. Then that's why we'll have to really worry about our gun rights.
     
  12. billcoe

    billcoe
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    Wait, why not just lay down and let them kick your door in during the wee hours like the Gestapo and murder you and your family pets? PS, no dancing in public anymore. Ever. Or you go to jail.
    [video=youtube;2Dy2YSRFPb0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dy2YSRFPb0&feature=player_embedded[/video]

    The world is changing. Now, more and more, instead of "Americans", it's us (citizens) vs them (authorities). Sad. Power corrupts, and we are seeing it.
     
  13. Grunwald

    Grunwald
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    They do not care. It is the property owners in the city who end up paying the settlements or judgments not those who committed the act.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2011
  14. Russianfist

    Russianfist
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    Just curious why everyone just assumes because the guy was a Marine with a couple tours under his belt that makes him automaticly innocent of any crime? I think some very fundimental facts are being overlooked about this case in this thread. First you need a warrent signed by a judge before its served and it has to be penned by the DA's office. Not the PD. Also the cops don't just randomly pick a house,bust in the door and gun someone down like so many here have made it sound. Ubless this was a raid on a mistaken address (which HAS happened) they had something bad on this guy. Also if you wanna snuff a witness like some have suggested you don't. Bring the whole gang with you. you waste him in a grocery store parking lot at night and make it look like a robbery. I gotta ask all the cop haters what would they do if they get what they want and every cop got fired and no police forces existed? What is a better alternitive? Military?wild west? Linch mobs?tribal?anarchy?
    I've been lurking this thread for awhile and I still have seen any solid points that the cops whacked a perfectly innocent civilian minding his own business.
     
  15. Bazooka Joe

    Bazooka Joe
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    Maybe because the cops themselves have said that they didn't find anything he would have been arrested for? Maybe that the warrant didn't even have his name on it? Are you reading any of the linked articles? No one is jumping to the conclusion that Marine equals innocent, but the police have provided no evidence whatsoever that they had any real reason to assault this guys house. You're trying to say innocent until proven guilty on behalf of the police officers when that chance wasn't afforded to the victim in this crime. And, yes, the police procedure in this case does appear to be criminally awful.
     
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  16. dmancornell

    dmancornell
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    Nobody said that. His previous profession has nothing to do with his guilt or lack thereof.

    Me personally, I only cite his marine tours because people who unquestioningly support cops tend to be pro-military as well. Calling him a "marine" is an easy way to induce cognitive dissonance with the sheeple.

    Irrelevant. They work for the same team, the tax-parasites. That's also the same DA's office that will host the circus trial to declare the shooting justified, just you watch.

    The cops are the judge, jury and executioner now? Even if Guerena was guilty of some horrific crime (and since the cops didn't find anything in his house, that seems highly unlikely), did his wife and infant son deserve to be home invaded? Did Guerena himself deserve to be summarily executed?

    Strawman argument. Libertarians want police to abide by the Constitution and treat people with courtesy and respect. That means no home invasions and other gestapo tactics, refusing to enforce unjust laws, stop treating motorists as cash cows, stop using civil forfeiture, stop using "officer safety" as an excuse for wanton violence against civilians, etc.
     
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  17. timac

    timac
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  18. Grunwald

    Grunwald
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    I am willing to bet that the same people who are up in arms about this are the same people who were equally outraged when those 4 cops got gunned down in Lakewood Washington last year (or was it 2 years ago) but a convict released early by Arkansas.
    The common thread is that we all want to live safely and expect everyone to abide by the Constitution. Perhaps you find the idea of the police behaving like NKVD in the old Soviet Union, but I doubt you will find many sharing that opinion.
     
  19. jvbutter

    jvbutter
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    thats the bigger issue... the people pay the money for the agency to exist... and when they misuse power or authority, and get sued, there taking out tax money to pay out the the offended... why not make the individual responsible, not the entity???
    do u watch TV crime shows... havn't u seen the cops persuaded the DA and persuade the Judge at times on a strong hunch... Im not saying it happens all the time, but this time???? And if you say this was planned as well as it was, why was woman and child at home doing laundry like typical house family??? Were was the drugs or other items indicated a major felon/drug dealer/ stolen goods / or ???? Furthermore... any intel would have told the warrent servers that there was not a majory amount of bad guys inside... come one, a whole team for just 1 guy??? REally, this just smells bad to me.
    No solid points that the cops might have flubbed this one up??? come on reread the thread and the facts listed.
     
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