Arizona SWAT shoots marine, new developments

[mjbskwim]

Maybe educate your spouse as to telling you that the guy pointing a gun at her and the baby had a BADGE and a truck with red and blue lights?
Maybe I would forget that part too,with a gun pointed at my head.
Maybe a "I am armed and willing to defend my home,identify yourself" ?
or "Who is it" ? "You better be cops or else" ?

Anything but just crouch and point the gun?
OK OK I'm dropping the gun....if you know it's cops?

He was a MARINE with 2 tours in Iraq,I would bet he had some knowledge of the protocol in a situation like this.

Was he worth more to his wife dead or alive?

A lot of questions to answer before we clear his name or the police department's name

 

[mjbskwim]

I'd grab my body armor and a weapon and engage all targets until they are neutralized which may include double tapping to ensure my safety.

This just makes me hard.....WOW Just double tap them,so....macho

So if you are awaken in the middle of the night,your wife tells you the policia are outside,you are just gunna start shooting them?

Man you is hard , mofo. I can sense the testosterone thru your post

Again,y'all have absolutely no idea of what really happened.You don't know he was clean,you don't know if the wife forgot the little factor that it was the police outside,you don't know if he was just lost after being in Iraq and had a death wish.

All you do know is what was put out by the most reliable news agencies.(joke)
And the maybe fact they were caught in a lie.

But you have to post you would just 'double tap all of them' like that's the cool thing to say

 

[RB87]

Maybe educate your spouse as to telling you that the guy pointing a gun at her and the baby had a BADGE and a truck with red and blue lights?
Maybe I would forget that part too,with a gun pointed at my head.
Maybe a "I am armed and willing to defend my home,identify yourself" ?
or "Who is it" ? "You better be cops or else" ?

Anything but just crouch and point the gun?
OK OK I'm dropping the gun....if you know it's cops?

He was a MARINE with 2 tours in Iraq,I would bet he had some knowledge of the protocol in a situation like this.

Was he worth more to his wife dead or alive?

A lot of questions to answer before we clear his name or the police department's name

While I'd like more info, the fact that the police have changed stories multiple times and even more importantly, they let the man bleed out an hour before letting the medics go in. That stinks. It does not take an hour to clear your average suburban house.

 

[Grunwald]

This just makes me hard.....WOW Just double tap them,so....macho

So if you are awaken in the middle of the night,your wife tells you the policia are outside,you are just gunna start shooting them?

Man you is hard , mofo. I can sense the testosterone thru your post

Again,y'all have absolutely no idea of what really happened.You don't know he was clean,you don't know if the wife forgot the little factor that it was the police outside,you don't know if he was just lost after being in Iraq and had a death wish.

All you do know is what was put out by the most reliable news agencies.(joke)
And the maybe fact they were caught in a lie.

But you have to post you would just 'double tap all of them' like that's the cool thing to say

Reading the story what she saw was "armed men" and not police. Chances are that they were wearing all black and the only thing that identified them as cops was white SWAT on their backs, which she likely did not see.
I have been reading way too many stories of cops killing people when it could be prevented. If you ever watched one of those "Cops" type shows on tv and watched them do a raid, it's always pretty much the same: the move up to the house, yell "Police" and immediately break down the door and enter while yelling "Police" and "Search Warrant" and maybe some other commands. It is not just one of them shouting, it is a few of them. This creates confusion and I believe leads to a lot of these incidents. They should have one designated guy yelling and only one. I bet that this would prevent most of these tragedies,

 

[titsonritz]

Protect the face from what?

Yeah because SWAT operations are typically hazard free.

 

[dmancornell]

They should have one designated guy yelling and only one. I bet that this would prevent most of these tragedies,

Here's an idea, how about reserving SWAT teams for bank robberies and armed standoffs like they were originally meant for, and serving search warrants the old fashioned way, by knocking on the door?

By deploying SWAT teams for routine search warrants, the cops are presuming that homeowners cannot act like responsible adults, which demonstrates the total lack of respect and courtesy that cops have towards the people they are supposed to "serve and protect" (I laugh every time I hear that joke).

 

[titsonritz]

I just love all the armchair quarterbacking and badassery.

 

[dmancornell]

^

Criticizing us for being armchair quarterbacks presumes SWAT teams are necessary for routine search warrants, they are not. Your argument is invalid.

Maybe you have a point, I don't have any first hand experience at murdering people in their homes. Do I need to raise my killcount before I criticize these trigger happy murderers?

 

[Burt Gummer]

We live in a police state. There is no real reason to be terribly upset unless a person believes that freedom and liberty for all nonsense.

When the man comes a kickin' submit, bend over and take it. Either that or get shot. Have you ever heard of a swat team converging on a man's home, a person purely innocent or not so innocent, and then being defeated/leaving? No. Use arms to defend your home against robbers, baddies, but not the Gov. Submit/admit you have no rights whatsoever in that area right now and saved yourself from getting shot and killed.

Not a difficult scenario to understand. The 2nd was granted to protect against a government run amok but we crossed that bridge long, long ago and now a populace of neutered, feminized males are no challlenge to the man.

Live with the mass apathy. When cops kill, just be glad it wasn't you whittling wood by the roadside and just accept that is the world you live in; don't talk about rights, you have none really. Big business owns the government and your interests/voting mean nothing.

YouTube - ‪George Carlin ~ The American Dream‬‏

 

[Buddhalux]

This just makes me hard.....WOW Just double tap them,so....macho

So if you are awaken in the middle of the night,your wife tells you the policia are outside,you are just gunna start shooting them?

Man you is hard , mofo. I can sense the testosterone thru your post

Again,y'all have absolutely no idea of what really happened.You don't know he was clean,you don't know if the wife forgot the little factor that it was the police outside,you don't know if he was just lost after being in Iraq and had a death wish.

All you do know is what was put out by the most reliable news agencies.(joke)
And the maybe fact they were caught in a lie.

But you have to post you would just 'double tap all of them' like that's the cool thing to say

Some of us were trained in the military and that training isn't forgotten. It's not like there haven't been cases of robbers posing as police to gain entrance into domiciles. I'm usually awake at night so if I hear my door get kicked in and my dog gets shot I will be engaging all targets in my AO without hesitation. It's not bravado or macho, but it is a product of my training. When in doubt, empty the magazine. As I've said before some of the unit's that I was in were the tip of the spear for our country's forced entry capabilites. I have zero quams about defending my castle from all intruders.

 

[jvbutter]

Reading the story what she saw was "armed men" and not police. Chances are that they were wearing all black and the only thing that identified them as cops was white SWAT on their backs, which she likely did not see.,

so in that light... they live in crappy part of town.... and she sees guys with guns outside, shes not behind them so she cant see the SWAT on there back. says "Honey some guys with guns are outside"....

just my story

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

The government has no incentive not to deploy the SWAT team for any warrant. They know the courts are on their side, and even if something goes wrong, the taxpayers pay for the lawyers. On the other hand, under-utilizing the SWAT team will get their funding cut. The SWAT cops have to justify their meaningless jobs by deploying as much as possible.

For example, in the state of Maryland alone, SWAT is deployed 4.5 times a day on average, 94% of them being search warrants: 4.5 SWAT Raids Per Day - Reason Magazine


It'd be interesting to see how many of those search warrants could have been handled the old fashioned, constitutional way, but those statistics are sealed up, naturally.

+1 - This only gets worse from here. There has been a big federal push to put this system in place. On your knees slave - you will do as we say or be SWAT teamed... We got guns!!! Even the Park Service has SWAT teams for cryin out loud... I only hope to not be found with an unfired weapon on safe.

 

[Kevatc]

While I'd like more info, the fact that the police have changed stories multiple times and even more importantly, they let the man bleed out an hour before letting the medics go in. That stinks. It does not take an hour to clear your average suburban house.

The guy was shot 60 times. If he survived long enough to bleed out I bet it happened right quick.

 

[mjbskwim]

Well,kevatc,you do have a point.I would guess if it took them 60 rounds to make sure they hit him, none of the rounds went thru the same spot.Kinda hard to help a guy with a bullet hole thru every organ.

Not saying the lack of medical attention was right.

IF he was going to shoot them and was dirty,wouldn't he have just shot them THROUGH the walls?
Before they entered the house?

The citizens of AZ will be paying for this for some time.If we can come up with all these ideas,what do you think the lawyers will be askin?

 

[RB87]

New info from Radley Balko:

Jose Guerena Killed: Arizona Cops Shoot Former Marine In Botched Pot Raid

 

[Kevatc]

New info from Radley Balko:

Jose Guerena Killed: Arizona Cops Shoot Former Marine In Botched Pot Raid

Based on this article I think there was some serious mistakes made leading up to and including the raid. I think there is some serious negligence issues and that the wife should lawyer up and will eventually be collecting some hefty sum of cash.

On a side note ... 70 rounds fired, 60 hits and the guy still managed to live for about an hour?? Amazing. The cops not allowing any medical attention. Totally pathetic and inexcusable.

 

[Grunwald]

so in that light... they live in crappy part of town.... and she sees guys with guns outside, shes not behind them so she cant see the SWAT on there back. says "Honey some guys with guns are outside"....

just my story

I call baloney on that statement. I live in a very good part of Seattle, and a very dense neighborhood (my lot is just over 3,000 square feet) and yet if the SWAT was sneaking around my house, chances are I would not know about it until they were busting in my back door.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Pro Libertate: Death Squad Damage Control in Tucson

 

[titsonritz]

I have a hard time believing what I read in the press, most of the time it is a pretty distorted account of what actually happened. In this case, I'll wait for the release of the video before passing judgment on the SWAT team.

Here is the video clearly showing the SWAT team came in with sirens blaring and properly identified themselves.

<broken link removed>

 

[dmancornell]

Here is the video clearly showing the SWAT team came in with sirens blaring and properly identified themselves.

<broken link removed>

Sirens don't mean anything, could be an ambulance or a firetruck. The press said the cops were raiding multiple homes so the shouts could have come from any of the goon squads. In any case, the stormtroopers gave the homeowner less than 10 seconds to open the door then invited themselves in, boxing the victim into an impossible situation.

I noticed all the cops joined in on the firing once it started, I bet those tax-eating freaks get off on shooting a real human being.