Arizona SWAT shoots marine, new developments

[Grunwald]

Why is a SWAT serving search warrants anyway?

 

[Trlsmn]

Why is a SWAT serving search warrants anyway?

SWAT is who you call when you need to serve a high risk warrant.

 

[Grunwald]

Maybe they should give some thought to less confrontational and high risk executions to these warrants. One would think that before forcing their way into this house, they would have had a decent file on who lives there, do they work, where, what the schedule is.
I am reminded of Waco where the FBI and ATF knew very well that David Koresh left the compound every couple of weeks to go into town for supplies. They should have arrested him at that point, but instead chose a military style siege.

This is a separate issue form whether the guy was innocent or not. Just because he was a Marine vet does not mean anything except that it is used by the news media as an emotional button to push. The military, just like the general population has its share of creeps. Too many people who view themselves as patriots and supporters of the military want to deny that.

 

[x503Codyx]

Seems to me that this is becoming quite the common occurrence. I don't know if it's the economy or what, but the police officers are becoming a little hasty on those triggers.

 

[Scrammer]

To quote a my best friend, who was an attorney and quit, "The police and the courts have all the power, to H_ll with the truth and any justice. "

 

[zdogk9]

'm reminded of what Col. Cooper said:
I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as "ninja,"
when in the view of the critic the traditional role of the ninja in Japan was to fight against oppression and tyranny. Let us note that almost no one ever resorts to force and violence unless he is convinced that his cause is
right, but without going into that let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic.

It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view.

 

[dmancornell]

Maybe they should give some thought to less confrontational and high risk executions to these warrants.

The government has no incentive not to deploy the SWAT team for any warrant. They know the courts are on their side, and even if something goes wrong, the taxpayers pay for the lawyers. On the other hand, under-utilizing the SWAT team will get their funding cut. The SWAT cops have to justify their meaningless jobs by deploying as much as possible.

For example, in the state of Maryland alone, SWAT is deployed 4.5 times a day on average, 94% of them being search warrants: 4.5 SWAT Raids Per Day - Reason Magazine

It'd be interesting to see how many of those search warrants could have been handled the old fashioned, constitutional way, but those statistics are sealed up, naturally.

 

[Redcap]

It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view.

I fully agree.

 

[titsonritz]

It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view.

These "masks" are balaclavas made of Kevlar and Nomex used to protect the face not identity.

 

[USMC1911]

^ and the bank robbers hanky on his face really is a snot rag...

 

[Reco]

SWAT or not 60 hits out of 71 shots thats an execution not a fire fight. Dead Men tell no tales.

 

[Redcap]

These "masks" are balaclavas made of Kevlar and Nomex used to protect the face not identity.

Doesn't change a damn thing.

 

[titsonritz]

Doesn't change a damn thing.

My guess is you would change your mind after raiding a meth lab that goes up around you.

 

[Buddhalux]

'm reminded of what Col. Cooper said:
I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as "ninja,"
when in the view of the critic the traditional role of the ninja in Japan was to fight against oppression and tyranny. Let us note that almost no one ever resorts to force and violence unless he is convinced that his cause is
right, but without going into that let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic.

It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view.

WTF is this guy smoking?? Ninjas were the assasination class of fuedal Japan. Samuri are the warrior class that followed the code of Bushido.

 

[Kevatc]

'm reminded of what Col. Cooper said:
I have been criticized by referring to our federal masked men as "ninja,"
when in the view of the critic the traditional role of the ninja in Japan was to fight against oppression and tyranny. Let us note that almost no one ever resorts to force and violence unless he is convinced that his cause is
right, but without going into that let us reflect upon the fact that a man who covers his face shows reason to be ashamed of what he is doing. A man who takes it upon himself to shed blood while concealing his identity is a revolting perversion of the warrior ethic.

It has long been my conviction that a masked man with a gun is a target. I see no reason to change that view.

Who am I to criticize Cooper but I believe there are times where wearing a balaclava is not only tactically smart but also could be lifesaving. I have a friend who is a SEAL with one of the west coast teams. I'm sure you guys have all seen pics of the skull balaclavas. He said they are very effective in intimidating people when they would do raids on houses looking for bad guys in the Ramadi/Fallujah area.

That said, if a person is going to knock down my door in the middle of the night that person had danged well better ID themselves as police very clearly.

 

[mjbskwim]

Who am I to criticize Cooper but I believe there are times where wearing a balaclava is not only tactically smart but also could be lifesaving. I have a friend who is a SEAL with one of the west coast teams. I'm sure you guys have all seen pics of the skull balaclavas. He said they are very effective in intimidating people when they would do raids on houses looking for bad guys in the Ramadi/Fallujah area.

That said, if a person is going to knock down my door in the middle of the night that person had danged well better ID themselves as police very clearly.

Why had they "better ID themselves"? After they hit you with 60 rounds.what are you gunna do?

 

[Kevatc]

Why had they "better ID themselves"? After they hit you with 60 rounds.what are you gunna do?

The point is having the popo not ID themselves until after they are in your home is going to result in a tragedy. Either like the outcome this thread is about or a homeowner deciding to trade lead because the police waited to ID themselves AFTER they were already in the home.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

These "masks" are balaclavas made of Kevlar and Nomex used to protect the face not identity.

Protect the face from what? Being recognized?

 

[gunnails]

So if armored masked gun toating men bust into my house then I should just stay in bed or should I go fetal on the floor?

 

[Buddhalux]

So if armored masked gun toating men bust into my house then I should just stay in bed or should I go fetal on the floor?

I'd grab my body armor and a weapon and engage all targets until they are neutralized which may include double tapping to ensure my safety.