Ammo Casing Questions

[Tilos]

Hey Guys-

• Tilos: I've considered .22 LR in the past (due to per round ammo cost) but my concern is that, while I would be able to work on trigger control and aiming, my "reaction" to recoil would be skewed due to the lightness of .22 LR. In the few competitions I've shot, I've noticed that, when the starting beep goes... I get a little "jerky" and tend to yank too hard on the trigger to compensate for the last shot's recoil. Your thoughts?

Thanks again everyone! All responses are welcome.

1.- my reaction to recoil
Most recoil happens after the bullet has left the barrel, trigger jerking happens before the bullet leaves the barrel, in anticipation of recoil.

Recoil only affects the return of the sight picture on target for the next shot.

There are shooting drills to identify if jerking is affecting your shot placement.
You won't see anyone doing these drills during a "match" but you can be certain other shooters are doing them during practice.
2.- when the starting beep goes... I get a little "jerky".
Experienced/good (match) shooters have a lot going on when competing that's not visually apparent, but jumping the trigger is not one of them.
You need to develop a shooting routine that is consistent, a hard thing to do and is tiring, but you have to learn trigger control that is neither a jerk or milking/follow thru/return to target/etc.
There are books written on this subject, so I'll end it here with a link to a sight that has a lot of info about competing.
Go there and read about what you seem interested in.
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!
You'll see there that a lot of competitors practice with airsoft guns
Just crazy I know
good luck,

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Sadly, the tiny apartment I live in has no room for a work area..

Oh on zee contrair Monfrare... (sorry French folks)(can barely write in American)

I Sir, is what some call a master reloader. Reloaded me first one on Jan 20, 1961.
You can reload anywhere. We reload out at the range all the time.
You also do not need to spend more than $150 for everything you need, and enough supplies to load your first 500.

Now to answer your question. Brass is reloadable no problem. The others, Ill shoot aluminum, wont reload it, tho I have and can. Still soft enough not to damage my Sigs chamber.
Steel, no way. Many AR makers say it voids the warranty.
Its ok for the eastern bloc firearms.

 

[FordPrefect]

Hey Guys-

• Ford Prefect: I'd love to see a pic of your setup!

Thanks again everyone! All responses are welcome.

Here's my setup, it's a bit of a mess at the moment as I just got done doing some load workups for service rifle.

Total I think I spent on this setup was just a bit south of $700. It can be done a bit cheaper with a different scale, I've got the Hornady auto dispenser, but it just sits nicely in the corner of the room. As for loading 9mm, I think I have the price down to about $0.06 for a 147-grain bullet. I'm using 147's to shoot in my XDm through a suppressor, so it's cheaper for me to reload the subsonic than to buy it most of the time.

Hell, the main reason I got into reloading was that I wanted and got a 500 Magnum. The two main rounds I shoot, 350 and 700 grain, I reload for about 1/4 of the cost of factory loads.

 

[Member 34319]

I'm very much unable to reload 9mm for less than $0.10 a round. Usually I figure I'm at around $0.12-$0.17 a round which still beats most factory loads on sale during a slump, like right now. I'd love for those stating they can reload it for less than 22lr to post up their sources. Otherwise I call BS.

I usually buy 2000-6000 projectiles at a time once or twice a year. Most of the places I buy bullets from range in the $40-$50 for 500. You don't get all that much more of a price break until you buy over 2-5 thousand at a time. At those quantities you will get down to roughly 6 cents a bullet. You will be buying $300-400 at a time to get those type of prices.

Powder is usually around $20-$30 a pound and up to $130-$200 for larger bottles of 4-8#. I use Titegroup almost entirely for 9mm and use 4 grains, their are 7000 grains to a pound so you can do the math on that one.

Primers are anywhere from $20-$40 for a box of 1000. Not a whole lot of discounts out there as of lately for purchasing larger quantities.

I don't buy brass, just collected it over years and years of shooting and cleaning up after others. So I don't factor this cost into the equation.

So in theory, let's say you start with just 1000 rounds.

You will spend $80-100 on a box of 1000 bullets, $20-30 on a pound of powder, and $20-40 on a box of 1000 primers. $120 on the low, $170 on the high side. Or $0.12-$0.17 a round.

Now reloading gear...

A proper press, at the least expensive end, just a plain Jain single stage press will cost you about $40 bucks. The Lee breach lock.

You'll need a set of dies, usually about $40.

A powder meter helps, another $30-60.

A good reloading manual, $20.

A means to prime cases, hand primer. $20.

A powder scale, $10-50.

Essentially you could get a kit as well for as cheap as $130
Lee Challenger Breech Lock Single Stage Press Anniversary - MPN: 90050

Calculate the additional cost into the prices of the components above. Your first 1000 rounds will cost. $0.25-$0.30 a round.

Spend $500 to $1000 on a progressive reloading press and the number increases.

 

[Jeedia]

Your numbers are close for small batches. But bulk is where you save alot if money. My average bullet order is usually north of 9k and sometime 15k. I buy primers by the case usually at least 3 cases (10k per case), and powder in 4 or 8lbs. If you wait for sales it can be done. I'm right at $.07 a round. I use Winchester primers, tight group powder, and right now I am shooting gallant hi-tek bullets. But the bullets changes depending on sales and total cost. Still looking for a bullet sponsor.

 

[Member 34319]

Your numbers are close for small batches. But bulk is where you save alot if money. My average bullet order is usually north of 9k and sometime 15k. I buy primers by the case usually at least 3 cases (10k per case), and powder in 4 or 8lbs. If you wait for sales it can be done. I'm right at $.07 a round. I use Winchester primers, tight group powder, and right now I am shooting gallant hi-tek bullets. But the bullets changes depending on sales and total cost. Still looking for a bullet sponsor.

What is your up front costs to get those numbers? I'm thinking your in a different class of shooter / reloader then most. I don't think most people buy 9000-15000 bullets all at once.

 

[Jeedia]

My last order was for 10,500 rounds and was right around $600 with free shipping. I also had a buddy buying so our order was almost double that.
But I also only buy supplies once maybe twice a year. Currently i am shooting about 12-14k of 9mm a year. Next year I hope up that to around 20k. Having buddies to group buy is huge. You can get decent discounts just by asking for them.

If you arent buying in at least case sizes (3-5000k) reloading doesnt make any sense. But if you want to shoot and get better the same amount of money goes much further when you reload.

 

[Member 34319]

Not trying to be offensive by saying this, but I don't think you're in the same league as many reloaders.

It also sounds like you compete regularly too.

If that's the case you are likely shooting a lot more than most as well.

Hard to compare your examples to a new reloader.

Heck even to a guy like me I've got nothing on your numbers.

I think it's a little misleading to say to a new reloader though.

Again I'm not trying to come off rude, just saying your in a different league that's all.

 

[Jeedia]

No offense taken. Maybe I should have been a little more detailed in my responses. It's hard to do well on a phone.

However I still think it can be done if you can get group buys together or shop deals. I have a buddy who reloads around 3-7000 rounds depending on the year and he is just above my cost. He loads on a simple lee pro. If you buy supplies in 3000ish quantities you should be able to get around $.10 a round. 3k in Bullets at .075, primers .028, powder .017= .12 a round. Those are all retail prices no sales or discounts. Now if you shop sales and say get 10% off the bullets that's .015 savings per round. Now your only .105 a round. The bullet is the biggest cost to reloading. It can also save you the most money if you can get deals.

If I was misleading in any way, that was not my intention. I got most of my equipment used to save money. I buy dillon because of the warranty and customer service. I try and buy as many bullets/powder/primers as I can afford at once to lower my costs.

 

[FordPrefect]

I'm very much unable to reload 9mm for less than $0.10 a round. Usually I figure I'm at around $0.12-$0.17 a round which still beats most factory loads on sale during a slump, like right now. I'd love for those stating they can reload it for less than 22lr to post up their sources. Otherwise I call BS.

9mm I just did the math on again and I reload at just $0.10 a round. Here's my breakdown
Small pistol primer (Cabela's price per 1k $32.99) = $0.03
Tite Group (Cabela's price per 1lb $21.99) 3.4 grains = $0.01
Berry's Bullet (147g rn Cabela's price per 250 on sale when I buy them $12.50) = $0.05

I'm like you Reno, I try to stock up on brass by picking up others, thanks to you, I've got quite a bit as well.

 

[Tilos]

This thread seems to have morphed into how cheap can you load 9mm...
No one has posted even a 9mm bullet cost lower than a single round of 22LR yet.
We have a thread about reloading cost pinned to the top of this reloading forum:
Beginners Guide to Reloading Costs (most cost effective rounds you have)
To respect the OP, why not post up info relative to his question?
jmo,

 

[han42solo]

Hello Again Everyone-

I'm really enjoying all the info in these responses. This thread has definitely deepened my interest in reloading but, as I've mentioned, I just can't make it happen right now. Based on the info given by Reno911, FordPrefect (not sure if you attached a pic, but I couldn't see it unfortunately) and Jeedia, I think I'd rather direct that initial start-up $$ elsewhere right now.

A couple responses:

• Tilos: I guess what I meant was -- do you think that practicing with .22LR (and the minimal recoil) would "taint" my reaction to larger calibers? It seems like the benefits outweigh that particular "negative", but I'd be interested in your thoughts (which were somewhat provided already, I realize.) I definitely try to dry-fire as often as possible at home, and I am working on moving between multiple targets and shooting for time (with my cheap iPhone app) when I go out shooting.

• Jeedia: While I myself can't reload right now, I would absolute love to see it done! Be forewarned... I ask a lot of questions (hopefully in an intelligent, non-annoying manner). My parents live in Gig Harbor, and I'm down in that area frequently. We should set something up!

Thanks to everyone for their replies so far. The interest and response to my first question is spurring me to ask another, which I'll probably post in the "General Firearm Discussion" forum.... stay tuned! (What a pathetic teaser...)

 

[FordPrefect]

Hello Again Everyone-

I'm really enjoying all the info in these responses. This thread has definitely deepened my interest in reloading but, as I've mentioned, I just can't make it happen right now. Based on the info given by Reno911, FordPrefect (not sure if you attached a pic, but I couldn't see it unfortunately) and Jeedia, I think I'd rather direct that initial start-up $$ elsewhere right now.

Sorry, here's the photo. I just forgot to link it last night.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Not trying to be offensive by saying this, but I don't think you're in the same league as many reloaders.

It also sounds like you compete regularly too.

If that's the case you are likely shooting a lot more than most as well.

Hard to compare your examples to a new reloader.

Heck even to a guy like me I've got nothing on your numbers.

I think it's a little misleading to say to a new reloader though.

Again I'm not trying to come off rude, just saying your in a different league that's all.

A lot of reloaders cast their own bullets for pretty much free and use Promo @ 8lb/$90 and Tula primers @$17/1000 so it's pretty close to two cents a shot? around there anyways but who's counting

 

[Member 34319]

A lot of reloaders cast their own bullets for pretty much free and use Promo @ 8lb/$90 and Tula primers @$17/1000 so it's pretty close to two cents a shot? around there anyways but who's counting

I believe you that there are folks casting their own, but likely not a new reloader.

My point was, to a new reloader starting out, realistic prices can be had around the numbers in my post.

To someone that can lay down or budgets $600 in bullets + $200-$400 in primers and $100-$300 in powders up front you can get less expensive prices per round, be it you have to pay for all of it at once.

To a caster who collects lead as they do brass, your costs will be less.

To someone starting out and buying a few hundred of everything to see if they want to even reload, I'd say those numbers under $0.10 are misleading to a newb. Especially if they were to invest in the gear because they had been told it would be $0.06 a round.

It can be yes, but it depends on your level of commitment and ability to throw down large chunks of money at one time.

 

[Certaindeaf]

.To someone that can lay down or budgets $600 in bullets..

I think a Lee mold is like $20?

 

[Member 34319]

I think a Lee mold is like $20?

Understandable.

Where do you get your lead? How much was your swaging set up? Lubing set up? How much extra time does it take to go from lead scrap to bullet to loaded cartridge vs starting with a manufactured bullet? How long did it take you to perfect a cast and not have cavitation poors? How consistent can you get weights? How long did it take you to get consistent bullet weights? Do you gas check? How much did that cost to get set up.

This info would benefit a new reloader.

It's easy to say you cast, but to a newb, there is much more going on.

 

[Randy A]

A Dillon Square Deal B set up for 9mm is $426.00 right now.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Understandable.

Where do you get your lead? How much was your swaging set up? Lubing set up? How much extra time does it take to go from lead scrap to bullet to loaded cartridge vs starting with a manufactured bullet? How long did it take you to perfect a cast and not have cavitation poors? How consistent can you get weights? How long did it take you to get consistent bullet weights? Do you gas check? How much did that cost to get set up.

This info would benefit a new reloader.

It's easy to say you cast, but to a newb, there is much more going on.

That's what the internet is for. It's not hard to find this info these days, lol.

 

[Member 34319]

I feel like I'm losing here.

So with that said.

I can reload 9mm for 2 cents a round.

It's totally easy.