American tourist charged with carrying ammo on airplan

[Xaevian]

Funny story: when I finally got orders allowing my spouse to join me at my Mannheim GE duty station, the moving company packed and shipped my household goods over, which included an SKS and 1000 rounds of 7 62x39. I checked it in in the armory until I left to stateside.

 

[ma96782]

Meanwhile......
I can remember when in America, this happened.



Aloha, Mark

 

[Flopsweat]

How come scissors wouldn't likely get you thrown in jail for 12 years I wonder? IDK? Are we talking toe-nail scissors? Or pinking shears, etc? Or those little blunt ended baby nail scissors. SCISSORS is a cool word, Y'know?

Medium length. I was visiting relatives, and they didn't have anything small for beard and mustache trimming. At the time, blades had to be less that something like 1.5 inches long. Now scissors can have 4 inch blades, so it's not an issue. The TSA apparently didn't find them. They've missed a lot of stuff, and regularly fail tests.

 

[wired]

Are you carrying something that would trip as maybe gun? If not must be something about your name triggers them to look at your stuff. Last time I flew I had an M-Series Taser in my checked bag and they did open it both ways. When I got to where I was going there was a cute little card in there saying "love your TSA". When I got home there was no card but I could tell they had gone through the bag again. A SHOCKING number of guns and ammo get past the screeners at the carry on check.

Nope. Tools from time to time for when I travel for whatever it is I do for a living which is 2-3 times month often times but every single time my bag gets opened and I get a TSA notice

 

[Alexx1401]

Nope. Tools from time to time for when I travel for whatever it is I do for a living which is 2-3 times month often times but every single time my bag gets opened and I get a TSA notice

There has got to be some reason they are looking at you then. Maybe your name is the same as someone they are "watching"? Surely they don't open every bag that rolls on the plane so for you to get checked every time I would think they have to be looking for your name. It would be interesting some time to be able to see behind the scenes at one of the busy airports. Watch how they actually do this.

 

[The Heretic]

American arrested in Turks and Caicos over ammo found in bag gets suspended sentence of 52 weeks

Bryan Hagerich was one of several Americans facing a potential mandatory minimum sentence of 12 years in prison in the Turks and Caicos Islands.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Alexx1401]

I have to wonder how long this will go on with idiots getting snagged like this? How many of them have to come to reporters crying about how traumatized they were before people will just make damn sure it does not happen to them?

 

[The Heretic]

I have to wonder how long this will go on with idiots getting snagged like this? How many of them have to come to reporters crying about how traumatized they were before people will just make damn sure it does not happen to them?

Idiots will be idiots.

 

[ma96782]

News said.....GUILTY. BUT, a suspended sentence.

American arrested in Turks and Caicos for ammo in bag gets suspended sentence

Bryan Hagerich was facing a minimum sentence of 12 years behind bars.

www.wftv.com

Aloha, Mark

 

[VinnieBoomBah]

News said.....GUILTY. BUT, a suspended sentence.

American arrested in Turks and Caicos for ammo in bag gets suspended sentence

Bryan Hagerich was facing a minimum sentence of 12 years behind bars.

www.wftv.com

Aloha, Mark

That seems like the correct outcome

 

[Mikej]

News said.....GUILTY. BUT, a suspended sentence.

American arrested in Turks and Caicos for ammo in bag gets suspended sentence

Bryan Hagerich was facing a minimum sentence of 12 years behind bars.

www.wftv.com

Aloha, Mark

Couldn't read the first article due to my ad blocker, but second article stated "Hunting Ammo" !!!!!!! OMG!
I did finally hear yesterday on the radio that it was a "BOX" of hunting ammo. Now WTH? I could see missing a live round? .38special? 9mm? Even a .223? But whole freaking box?

 

[Alexx1401]

Couldn't read the first article due to my ad blocker, but second article stated "Hunting Ammo" !!!!!!! OMG!
I did finally hear yesterday on the radio that it was a "BOX" of hunting ammo. Now WTH? I could see missing a live round? .38special? 9mm? Even a .223? But whole freaking box?

Every one of these idiots has been the same story. They "missed" the ammo. Its one thing to do this inside the US when flying. TSA will have a LONG talk with you and make you know you pissed them off. Leaving the US? Time to remember Mom and Dad are not going to hold your hand and tell you how special you are. People going to Mexico often get jacked this same way. Country that is run by armed gangs takes a VERY dim view of Americans who get caught with ammo traveling there. I can not find it in me to feel bad for these people.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Glad it all ended well.

With that said...
When traveling...it is wise to remember that the laws and such of where you are going...may be different than from where you are from.
Andy

 

[WillametteWill]

What I don't like about laws like this (I understand other countries have different philosophies for their laws) is the lack of criminal intent. If mom gets pulled over and dirtbag son leaves his backpack in the car (he is not there) and for some reason it gets searched and dope, guns, etc. are found, generally there would not be a crime as she did not have any criminal intent to possess. (Or knowledge, for that matter.) I suppose in these cases one could argue there is a higher duty to make sure your luggage is sanitized, but it is also why in the States accidental (negligent) violations like this are often adjudicated in a civil proceeding from what I hear. I knew someone who didn't declare a firearm in checked luggage (a cop) and ended up writing a large check.

And on another note, Rapper Nicki Minaj apparently just livestreamed her arrest for drugs at an airport in the Netherlands. She will get a million more IG followers and material for a new song.

 

[RVTECH]

It seems like these laws in the Turks & Caicos are an overreaction to what has been a recent spike in drug related crime. I suspect past - as well as recent events in Haiti precipitated this, and possibly they (T & C) fear similar circumstances. From an article about this:

In recent years, the Turks and Caicos have seen a big jump in gun-related violence, thanks largely to weapons being smuggled into the British Caribbean island territory. So in 2022, the officials ramped up their gun laws.

Haiti is under virtual gang control today in large part because of the wave of military-style rifles and other weapons that have been smuggled there via export points like Port Everglades in Fort Lauderdale.

 

[Koda]

Every one of these idiots has been the same story. They "missed" the ammo.

People are human and none of us are exempt from missing something or making a mistake. A 12 year prison sentence for low volume miscellaneous ammo is nothing more than an egregious money scheme. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.

 

[Yarome]

When traveling...it is wise to remember that the laws and such of where you are going...may be different than from where you are from.

Agreed. I think many forget too that people from the US are so used to getting away with so much that's "wrong" but will never be punished so it's not really viewed as "that wrong:" anymore. Even if a person is caught the penalties are so light as to be nothing more than a wrist slap.

Then... expect the same level of "free passes" in any country they wish to travel.

Other countries that are relatively crime free are that way not just because people are naturally more honest people, but because the penalties are such as to not be worth the crime.

I think most people agree that Japan has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. Ya know why?? Because even if you didn't do anything wrong, you can still be held in jail for 20 days under severe interrogation... for nothing more than "appearing suspicious". What many in the U.S. would consider "petty crimes" have very stiff sentences and jails border on human rights violations from Western perspectives. No heating, no cooling, no talking allowed, except during short periods of the daily schedule, a strict daily routine and mandatory labor.

You hear all the time how if you loose your wallet, your phone, or other property... you'll always get it back in Japan. Ya know why?? Because there is zero tolerance for theft of any kind in the eyes of the law. It can carry a penalty of 10 years in prison and a hefty fine. And... you will serve your full sentence... and... getting credit for time already served prior to sentencing is not automatic. It's up to the judge and really a 50-50 proposition.

What's the bar for theft? If a shop keeper gives you back too much change... you don't say anything and you keep it... that's an arrestable theft offense.

In that way, the bar for always being honest is set, normalized and average citizens don't even consider, or are even tempted, to do otherwise.

DUI's? At less than half the legal limit in the US (.03 vs .08) you can be arrested for being intoxicated while riding a bicycle (IOW, a "vehicle").


If the bar is low enough, penalties are severe enough and prison time is rough enough... I bet we wouldn't have such an overcrowding problem. Most crime just isn't worth it.

That said, 12 years for a single round is severe, but they sure made their point to any who wish to travel there and I can't fault them for it. It is their country, after all.

 

[TTSX]

Somewhat related: I know a guy who was in Japan and happened to find an empty .22lr case in his bag. He was a high volume rimfire shooter at the time so it's not hard to imagine one finding it's way where it isn't wanted. Apparently this is a huge deal as every single round in that country is checked out at the armory and every single case is checked back in. And it's only open to people on official business. Something about civilians not being allowed to even have components of ammo. Very strict.

The plus side was at the range, he lost a case, so that extra which had a different head stamp ended up getting checked back in and nobody was the wiser. Could have big big trouble. Not the kind of laws I'd like to live under.

 

[Yarome]

Something about civilians not being allowed to even have components of ammo. Very strict.

Yup. The only firearms allowed for private ownership are shotguns and airguns (no handguns or rifles) for hunting or competitive shooting in very controlled circumstances. Also requiring an extremely costly license renewed every 3 years and every firearm and every round of ammunition is inventoried and registered with your local police department. Annual in home police inspections are conducted to ensure safe storage and to inventory ammunition and components to ensure they match existing records.

IOW, outside of law enforcement and the military... even though the majority of LE don't carry... the only people in Japan that own firearms (handguns and rifles included) are criminal elements... and yes... they use them. Just not very often since the penalty for simple possession is 15 years. Possession for profit will get you another 5-15, and depending on how many, up to life. Having affiliation with a criminal organization at the time will get you another 15. Discharging one in public is a LIFE sentence... and they mean it!

Of course, they have to catch you, there are ways around it if they're connected and wealthy enough, and it doesn't stop them from using them. In a country where no one is armed, threatening someone with a firearm is typically sufficient... but firearm related murders still occur.

"Murder" itself is still alive and well though. It's just most commonly committed by beatings, strangulation, poisoning and stabbings.

A great deal of crime goes unreported though. The last thing a person wants is to piss off the wrong people and bring retribution down on their families or neighbors.

Pros and cons of such a "safe"... yet in many ways... very restrictive society. The most apropos Japanese adage is probably, "the nail that sticks up get's hammered".

 

[HiFi Magnetics]

Ridiculous. Illegal immigrants bringing tons of Fentanyl across the border that is more than enough to kill all of us still continuous. Not to mention other contraband including weapons.