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I definitely agree your friend needs some more training, but each person needs to find out what works best for them. Personally, I'd rather a newbie carry empty chamber than loaded if they aren't going to invest the time in training. At least that way they're less likely to hurt themselves or others. That's my opinion - others may disagree.

If that's how he wants to roll, I would recommend that he do some dry-fire practice where he draws, racks the slide to chamber a round, presents on target, and pulls the trigger. He'll need snap caps to do it properly, but that is a good place to start, and doesn't require range time. If he spends 10 min a day practicing that, he'll at least get the motions down. Not ideal, but better than nothing. It'll also demonstrate just how much of a PITA racking the slide of a pocket pistol is.

Next, still in dry fire only, time him on it. Set up a silhouette and tell him his goal is to draw and fire an "aimed shot" at center of mass in under 1.5 seconds. The required speed will compound the difficulty of the slide rack, and emphasize the added complexity of chamber empty carry when deploying the weapon under the stress of the ticking clock.

Once he's demonstrated his comfort and skill with all of that to the point where you're pretty sure he won't put a hole in his support hand, take him out to the woods (or a training area the lets you draw from holster, if you can find one near you) and have him go through the motions again, this time with the loaded gun. Probably worth doing some dry fire practice out there before loading up for real, just to reinforce the muscle memory. Live ammo will add a new stressor to the situation, so you'll want to have him start slow and take his time.

Once he's gotten used to slow, careful manipulation and draw with live fire, add the timer again. This time start at a much higher number (i.e. 5 seconds) and work your way down toward 1.5 as his confidence improves. Of course, throughout the live fire you will want to call a hard stop and correct any safety issues you see so he doesn't create training scars - practice makes permanent, after all.

These things combined should help get him to the point where he is at least somewhat proficient and comfortable with carrying in his preferred method. It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.

Once all that is done and is still fresh in his mind, you should then ask him to think through how he will draw when one or both hands are full. Example scenarios:
- What if he's carrying groceries or bags?
- What if he's carrying his newborn child?
- What if he's trying to shield another person from harm or pushing them to safety?
- What if he's trying to hold a door closed to prevent an intruder from entering?
- What if he's trying to ward off blows from an attacker?
- What if he injures one of his hands or dislocates his shoulder during a confrontation?

If you ask those questions up front without the hands on training, he'll probably just shrug them off. Waiting until after he has gone through the motions and tried it for real will hopefully hammer the point home a little more effectively. At that stage he'll have a more realistic understanding of manipulation in the moment, and if he isn't a total idiot he'll quickly recognize the shortcomings of his carry method. Might not change his mind, but at least he'll be making an informed decision and clearly understand the limitations of his choices.

That's my $0.02 - best of luck!
 
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I guess training in one handed slide manipulation would be the top of the list.

With an LCP thats going to be a pain.

Perhaps the light comes on then…. Bigger caliber and better readiness.

I love folks who can predict the future. It would happen in X place and not in my town. These folk should give me the winning lotto numbers.

I carry a pistol because I don't think I'll need it.

If I thought I would need it I'd stay home, or, if I had to go, I'd go with a rifle, lots of ammo, all my buddies, get there early and win decisively.
 
Is your nipple primed with the hammer down?
Ha...:D

If I plan on shooting right away...I will load and cap all six chambers of a percussion revolver.

If I plan on carrying it...I will load all six , but only cap 5 , having the hammer rest on the uncapped nipple.
In my experience , using the so called safety pins between the nipples...will quickly have your revolver out of time.
Andy
 
I have to say I have pocket carried for near 40 years, without any problems.
This is understandable as pocket designs differ and some will allow for considerably safer and more secure carry than others.

Some coats/jackets have deeper, vertical style pockets which will safely secure a gun but some waist length, lighter styles have shallower, 'angular' style pockets which will not be the best for carrying.

A friend of mine was recently over and his snub nose S&W fell out of his pocket while he was sitting on a couch.
 
This is understandable as pocket designs differ and some will allow for considerably safer and more secure carry than others.

Some coats/jackets have deeper, vertical style pockets which will safely secure a gun but some waist length, lighter styles have shallower, 'angular' style pockets which will not be the best for carrying.

A friend of mine was recently over and his snub nose S&W fell out of his pocket while he was sitting on a couch.
Did it go off when it hit the couch cushion?
 
If you're not comfortable carrying with a round chambered, you are not ready to carry.

And you are actually more of a danger carrying a gun you are not comfortable with. You'll shoot your eye out, or someone else.
 
If you're not comfortable carrying with a round chambered, you are not ready to carry.

And you are actually more of a danger carrying a gun you are not comfortable with. You'll shoot your eye out, or someone else.
Just because someone chooses to carry in a "lower" readiness condition than you doesn't mean they're scared and you're an expert.

I've been competing a lot of years, and have seen top shooters and ROs screw up safe handling. I'm certain they thought they were "ready" just before their NDs, and just after.
 
I've posted this in other threads, but the odds you need to use your carry gun in a self defense situation is extremely low. The odds that the "bad guy" continues even after seeing your gun, in which he doesn't know if it's chambered or even loaded at all, is exponentially lower. The odds that the second it takes to rack your slide is the difference between life and death? Better chance at winning Powerball.

I would make the argument that if more people carried this way, we'd have less negative press in the news about "accidental" shootings from both adults and kids who get their hands on their parents' guns.
 
This is understandable as pocket designs differ and some will allow for considerably safer and more secure carry than others.

Some coats/jackets have deeper, vertical style pockets which will safely secure a gun but some waist length, lighter styles have shallower, 'angular' style pockets which will not be the best for carrying.

A friend of mine was recently over and his snub nose S&W fell out of his pocket while he was sitting on a couch.
This is why geese wish they had opposable thumbs.
 
I've posted this in other threads, but the odds you need to use your carry gun in a self defense situation is extremely low. The odds that the "bad guy" continues even after seeing your gun, in which he doesn't know if it's chambered or even loaded at all, is exponentially lower. The odds that the second it takes to rack your slide is the difference between life and death? Better chance at winning Powerball.

I would make the argument that if more people carried this way, we'd have less negative press in the news about "accidental" shootings from both adults and kids who get their hands on their parents' guns.
I've had to point a gun at a bad guy three times in my life. In all three cases the bad guy withdrew. Two cases were attempted home invasions. One was a situation in which I accidentally interrupted a burglary. In one home invasion the preamble was very soft sounds circling the house that could have been a human looking in the windows or an animal doing whatever. I got the gun in case it was a human and went back to studying. I had at least twenty minutes between that and the attempt to break in through the window. Plenty of time to rack a slide or even load an unloaded gun. The second home invasion I had just barely enough time to rack a slide. The burglary I interrupted accidentally there was no time to rack a slide. The bad guy responded by charging me from about 30 feet away, and my .44sp revolver was in my hands and he was screaming "Lady, be cool with that gun!" and trying desperately to slide to a halt seeming all in an instant. There was definitely not time to rack a slide. There was not the 1.5 seconds someone mentioned either. I was very glad I had done a lot of dry fire practice at drawing from concealment.

So I doubt very seriously that a SD use of a gun in which there was no time to rack a slide is less likely than winning the Powerball lottery, since I have experienced it. Women frequently get attacked without warning, as happen to my friend. One instant a passerby on the walking path is saying a friendly hello while passing and the next instant he's hit you twice and you are semi-stunned and struggling. Under such circumstances you are going to be very lucky to get one arm and hand free and able to access the gun and use it immediately at point blank range. To get both hands free to rack a slide and not have the gun taken away from you...you had better not count on that happening. My friend was better off with a scissors on her belt that she could use with one hand--when she regained consciousness slung over the bad guys back and being abducted--than she would have been with a gun with an empty chamber.

(In case anyone is comparing with my earlier post in this thread--there were 5 incidents but only 3 in which I pointed a gun at someone. The first attempted home invasion I experienced I had no gun and used bluff and acting like I had a gun. I was a student of 21 and had left my .22 rifle home because of rules in dorm where I had lived initially. By one day after attempted home invasion I owned and had checked out a Gillesie .22. So one of the attacks didn't involve a gun. And the case where I interrupted the attack and attempted rape on the young woman in the parking lot behind my dorm in grad school, I had the gun in my pocket but didn't have to draw and point it. I ran towards them very slowly bringing my weight down on the ground as hard as possible so instead of sounding like a 22-year old slender woman running slow I sounded like a 250-pound man running fast. The bad guy ran when I was still about 50' away without even looking my way. So I never drew or pointed the gun that time. So of the five incidents, I had a gun in four but pointed it only in three.)
 
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I've had to point a gun at a bad guy three times in my life. In all three cases the bad guy withdrew. Two cases were attempted home invasions. One was a situation in which I accidentally interrupted a burglary. In one home invasion the preamble was very soft sounds circling the house that could have been a human looking in the windows or an animal doing whatever. I got the gun in case it was a human and went back to studying. I had at least twenty minutes between that and the attempt to break in through the window. Plenty of time to rack a slide or even load an unloaded gun. The second home invasion I had just barely enough time to rack a slide. The burglary I interrupted accidentally there was no time to rack a slide. The bad guy responded by charging me from about 30 feet away, and my .44sp revolver was in my hands and he was screaming "Lady, be cool with that gun!" and trying desperately to slide to a halt seeming all in an instant. There was definitely not time to rack a slide. There was not the 1.5 seconds someone mentioned either. I was very glad I had done a lot of dry fire practice at drawing from concealment.

So I doubt very seriously that a SD use of a gun in which there was no time to rack a slide is less likely than winning the Powerball lottery, since I have experienced it. Women frequently get attacked without warning, as happen to my friend. One instant a passerby on the walking path is saying a friendly hello while passing and the next instant he's hit you twice and you are semi-stunned and struggling. Under such circumstances you are going to be very lucky to get one arm and hand free and able to access the gun and use it immediately at point blank range. To get both hands free to rack a slide and not have the gun taken away from you...you had better not count on that happening. My friend was better off with a scissors on her belt that she could use with one hand--when she regained consciousness slung over the bad guys back and being abducted--than she would have been with a gun with an empty chamber.

(In case anyone is comparing with my earlier post in this thread--there were 5 incidents but only 3 in which I pointed a gun at someone. The first attempted home invasion I experienced I had no gun and used bluff and acting like I had a gun. I was a student of 21 and had left my .22 rifle home because of rules in dorm where I had lived initially. By one day after attempted home invasion I owned and had checked out a Gillesie .22. So one of the attacks didn't involve a gun. And the case where I interrupted the attack and attempted rape on the young woman in the parking lot behind my dorm in grad school, I had the gun in my pocket but didn't have to draw and point it. I ran towards them very slowly bringing my weight down on the ground as hard as possible so instead of sounding like a 22-year old slender woman running slow I sounded like a 250-pound man running fast. The bad guy ran when I was still about 50' away without even looking my way. So I never drew or pointed the gun that time. So of the five incidents, I had a gun in four but pointed it only in three.)
I think the Powerball part of this is that have been TREMENDOUSLY unlucky, or you live in a terrible place. Most people (99.999%) will go their entire lives without being a target of violent crime from a stranger.
 
I think the Powerball part of this is that have been TREMENDOUSLY unlucky, or you live in a terrible place. Most people (99.999%) will go their entire lives without being a target of violent crime from a stranger.
Once again you are just making up numbers.
And you are not considering crimes toward women, including rapes or attempted rapes or abductions.

One of my SD incidents was, indeed, in a rougher section of St. Paul, MN, the only place I could find to rent given my two big dogs in that era. The other four were all within a block of a major university campus. (Two at U of Florida, one at Harvard, one at OSU.) None of those were places that appeared unsafe. I'm inclined to think that living within a block of a large university campus is way more dangerous for women than is generally realized. I moved to my current home, north of Corvallis by a few miles and miles from the OSU campus, about 30 years ago. Things have been delightfully boring in the SD department since then.
 
I think the Powerball part of this is that have been TREMENDOUSLY unlucky, or you live in a terrible place. Most people (99.999%) will go their entire lives without being a target of violent crime from a stranger.

Once again you are just making up numbers.
And you are not considering crimes toward women, including rapes or attempted rapes or abductions.

One of my SD incidents was, indeed, in a rougher section of St. Paul, MN, the only place I could find to rent given my two big dogs in that era. The other four were all within a block of a major university campus. (Two at U of Florida, one at Harvard, one at OSU.) None of those were places that appeared unsafe. I'm inclined to think that living within a block of a large university campus is way more dangerous for women than is generally realized. I moved to my current home, north of Corvallis by a few miles and miles from the OSU campus, about 30 years ago. Things have been delightfully boring in the SD department since then.
I'm going to risk calling @OldBroad44 old compared to @RX-79G, but only in the sense that statistics are just that, when you increase the range, your statistical chances increase.

Also, we're talking statistics, which are just that, sample applying to a population. So his sample may be true for most cases, I'll say one standard deviation or 66%, it won't necessarily be true in ALL cases.

But it is also true, you can avoid areas where you are more likely to encounter problems, for example Portland.
 
I'm going to risk calling @OldBroad44 old compared to @RX-79G, but only in the sense that statistics are just that, when you increase the range, your statistical chances increase.

Also, we're talking statistics, which are just that, sample applying to a population. So his sample may be true for most cases, I'll say one standard deviation or 66%, it won't necessarily be true in ALL cases.

But it is also true, you can avoid areas where you are more likely to encounter problems, for example Portland.
Interpreting statistics is only the issue when there are real numbers. Not numbers someone just makes up.

You can avoid known dangerous places once you are a afluent enough to live, work, and travel in places you consider safe. The general population includes poor people who don't have those options. I have the option of living in a safer neighborhood now. During most of my life I didnt. As far as I know it is no sin to be working your way through college, too poor to afford a car that would extend your options as to where to live.

And anyway, all those near-campus areas I lived were considered safe; they had no reputation at all for being dangerous. Only after my bad experiences do I infer that living so near campus is way more dangerous for women than is usually recognized. Lots of areas that appear to be safe arent. Or aren't this particular day or night.
 
And you are not considering crimes toward women, including rapes or attempted rapes or abductions.
I certainly was considering them. It's just that the vast majority of violent crimes against women are perpetrated by people they know and have reasons to trust.
 

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