Other State 88 y.o. woman charged for shooting shoplifter

[MannyGlocks]

Some would open their house and out buildings for thieves rather than prevent theft...what a world.

Yes, I'm being sarcastic, but this is the message I read regarding a few folks.

As it is, I keep reading reports of thieves going to places like Lowe's and outright/brazenly stealing with impunity. They just walk in, look over what appeals to them, load it up and away they go...while employees and shoppers look on...paralyzed.

I know, a store is not a home, but if thieves aren't stopped, what's to keep them from coming to your place and why wouldn't they?

No one else has the intestinal fortitude to stop them at stores...next stop, your place...

Perhaps, have milk and cookies for them?

 

[2Wheels4Ever]

It's the system that forces them to steel man.....Think of their children!!!











Sarcasm.

 

[American123]

Some people are ok with thieves dying for thieving. One thing is for sure, there'd be less thieving.

 

[MannyGlocks]

Fewer thieves...fewer theft.

 

[sobo]

Fewer thieves...fewer theft.

Similarly...

A invaluable resource that should be in every gun owner's library...

 

[bbbass]

But, if you're a bank you can have armed guards who will in fact defend bank money (Federal Money) with guns. If you're the police or law enforcement, you can defend property with lethal force. If you're the US military, you can defend property with lethal force, and many installations can deploy lethal force for merely trespassing.
So apparently that "principle" just applies to you and me.

So, could an armed guard legally USE deadly force against an unarmed robber that politely showed a "this is a stick up" note? Or could a jeweler shoot somebody caught in the act of shoplifting? Or are they merely using the "threat" of deadly force to stop the criminal act and/or detain the miscreant until LE arrives??

Could a Brinks guard shoot anybody that approaches the cash bags?

Can law enforcement legally shoot a non-threatening perp for simply walking out of a house with a TV?

Can the military use lethal force to take a hill to accomplish military objectives? Can they use lethal force to protect vital military installations and national security interests against intrusion by spies, etc?

Should you and I be able to use whatever force we deem necessary to protect our property.. yeah, I'm okay with being able to make that decision for myself. But I will have to remember that in a civil trial I will be judged by the "what a reasonable person would do" standard... yes???

Those touting for killing over possessions have never taken a life. A terrible thing to do. Over money, car or whatever. Those things can be replaced.

I've never had to take a life.. so being an internet tough guy, when the robber caught in the act asks, "Is that 1967 Trans Am worth your life?", I'd have to answer, "IDK, is it worth yours????"!!!

I have read that elderly and otherwise vulnerable people are given quite a bit of leeway in regards to the use of deadly force. An 88 year old woman could die from a simply light push that causes a fall. She had every right from minute one to fear for her life.

------------------------- when she shot him in the back as he was running out the door...

I say time served for this feisty young thang!!!

But reality is that he will own her store soon.

It's the system that forces them to steel man.....Think of their children!!!

Sarcasm.

"How he 'sposed to get his money?"

 

[leadcounsel]

So the question really is: When do honest, tax paying, hard working, law abiding citizens catch a break.

I doubt anyone would argue the fact that our society has rapidly declined in values and norms, in spite of all of the feel good "value life" laws we have in place.

What we have built is a society where the criminal wins, and the citizen loses. A citizen is victimized by the criminal, and by the government.

Police do little to solve or prevent these types of crimes. They go unsolved, unpursued, and rarely prosecuted and if prosecuted the punishments are nil. Citizens get ground up by that process, and the aftermath. Then if they actively defend their property, they themselves are villianized for not having the SAME AUTHORITY that their servants (government officials) have. In other words, the government works for this old lady. The government CAN defend its property with lethal force. (Try walking into a bank, taking money, and leaving. I guarantee at some juncture you will face men with guns who will shoot you.) But this old lady cannot. But she did and is now being prosecuted.

Society is further victimized because the message favors the thieves. The tax payers pay the bills for prosecution, possibly defense, and the judges and the jails. So the tax payer citizens are doubly victimized. And further, we citizens have to carry extra insurance (an additional cost) to protect against losses... So we are essentially just paying to subsidize someone else's theft and profit. And of course retail theft raises costs of goods for citizens...

This is a really screwed up system IMO.

I'm fully in favor of the horse thief rule. If a thief is committing a serious larceny or theft of your property of significant value or need to you, you should be able to use lethal force to defend against the loss.

 

[Member 52301]

Similarly...
View attachment 713818
A invaluable resource that should be in every gun owner's library...

I owned and read that book many years ago. I passed it on to a library.

Cate

 

[MannyGlocks]

LC,

Agreed.

Then there are those who would put a spin on how value-less 'your' property theft is with: They're mere 'possessions'. How dare you not want them stolen! Or, gawd forbid you prevent from being stolen. (that you may have worked all your life for)

 

[Hawaiian]

What else can she do? Just let anyone come in and walk out with whatever they want? I doubt the police would even respond to a shoplifting 911 call in her neighborhood. Even if they did, the criminals would just get a ticket and add it to their collection. The crooks know this and feel free to take whatever they please.
However, her actions will result in her being convicted. You can't shoot someone in the back on their way out the door over a couple bottles of whiskey. Business's need to pack up and move to a less crime plagued area.

 

[MannyGlocks]

" What else can she do? Just let anyone come in and walk out with whatever they want? "

Yes, after all they're mere 'possessions'.

That's the accepted response (by some on this forum) to brazen (and less obvious) theft.

 

[Alexx1401]

So the question really is: When do honest, tax paying, hard working, law abiding citizens catch a break.

The answer to that question is when the people who vote decide they have had enough. The people who vote, both by voting and by telling anyone who will listen to them that it's a waste of time, all make the choice to live this way. Until a bunch of them decide they want change, this is what they get to live with

 

[bbbass]

The answer to that question is when the people who vote decide they have had enough. The people who vote, both by voting and by telling anyone who will listen to them that it's a waste of time, all make the choice to live this way. Until a bunch of them decide they want change, this is what they get to live with

Several bunches want change today. Most of it not good. Crazy damn world! Some people don't believe in voting in order to obtain the changes they want. Instead they riot and burn it all down. They know it has worked in the past. "Give me what I want and I will go away."

If only the good had a spine. Cuz we're gonna have to fight it out it seems. Crappola won't stop until the forces of evil are again defeated or gotten rid of or both.

 

[Alexx1401]

Several bunches want change today. Most of it not good. Crazy damn world! Some people don't believe in voting in order to obtain the changes they want. Instead they riot and burn it all down. They know it has worked in the past. "Give me what I want and I will go away."

If only the good had a spine. Cuz we're gonna have to fight it out it seems. Crappola won't stop until the forces of evil are again defeated or gotten rid of or both.

Yes sadly the kids who were never told no, are finding that if they throw adult size temper tantrums they get what they want. All we can hope for is the people watching and living through this decide this November to put some adults in charge who will say NO again. People who riot, burn, and loot work just like kids. They will do what they are allowed to do. If there is no push back? It will get really bad. This is why it's hard to buy a lot of kinds of ammo now again. Many are in fear of where this will end up. Certainly interesting times to be alive.

 

[sobo]

Many are in fear of where this will end up. Certainly interesting times to be alive.

I'm just waiting for when they declare open season. And it won't matter to me which side declares it...

 

[bbbass]

Certainly interesting times to be alive.

Old Chinese curse...

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm just waiting for when they declare open season. And it won't matter to me which side declares it...

From what I have seen I doubt it will ever get anyplace close to what some fear. 99% of the agitators are people who were never told no. Cause them some pain and they run screaming for Police. The same Police they hate. Notice how every time a mob see's someone get shot they scatter? Few will run into gun fire. So if the shooting starts it will end real fast.

 

[revjen45]

1) I've never had to take a life.. so being an internet tough guy, when the robber caught in the act asks, "Is that 1967 Trans Am worth your life?", I'd have to answer, "IDK, is it worth yours????"!!!
The best answer to "Is that 1967 Trans Am worth your life?" is not verbal.
In the immortal words of Tuco "If you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
The Orc should not know you're armed until impact of the 2nd round.

2) Hmmm -
Shot at the floor, hit the miscreant in the back, never shot a gun before.
Sounds like she needs some range time for skill improvement.

3) Shooting somebody over a couple of bottles of booze is at best a bad idea, at worst a life-blighting bad idea.
In the absence of a physical threat a gun should not be introduced into the equation.

4) "I'm just waiting for when they declare open season. And it won't matter to me which side declares it... "
In any case it will be blamed on the apocryphal "White Supremacists" who are responsible for everything wrong in the world.

 

[sobo]

4) "I'm just waiting for when they declare open season. And it won't matter to me which side declares it... "
In any case it will be blamed on the apocryphal "White Supremacists" who are responsible for everything wrong in the world

I'll live with that...

 

[bbbass]

Notice how every time a mob see's someone get shot they scatter? Few will run into gun fire. So if the shooting starts it will end real fast.

For now.

What we are seeing on the streets are generally akin to the Brown Shirts. Shock troops. But there are some serious people behind the scenes. And once they whip up their followers into arming themselves, things may be somewhat different. If something like the Symbionese LIberation Army comes along, there could be actual fighting. I'm sure they won't win, but it won't be fun. The 60s changed our world... so did "they" win or did "they" lose??? It could happen again.