80% lowers

[IronMonster]

Why would anyone spend huge amounts of time hand building a hot rod car? Why would anyone buy all the woodworking tools and equipment just to build a few chairs and a table or two? Why do people hand tie fly's for fishing?

I have built better than a dozen 80% guns... All of them it would have been easier to just buy parts... Which is exactly why I did it.

My 80% rifles are fully engraved with markings and anodized and machined on a full size mill. They are not ground out on a $129 drill press. I did it because Its fun. Its fun to have something you did and did well. Its fun to have something different and customized.

 

[Diamondback]

Why would anyone spend huge amounts of time hand building a hot rod car? Why would anyone buy all the woodworking tools and equipment just to build a few chairs and a table or two? Why do people hand tie fly's for fishing?

I have built better than a dozen 80% guns... All of them it would have been easier to just buy parts... Which is exactly why I did it.

My 80% rifles are fully engraved with markings and anodized and machined on a full size mill. They are not ground out on a $129 drill press. I did it because Its fun. Its fun to have something you did and did well. Its fun to have something different and customized.

Which is the game with the poly EPL I did too: "How much from raw material can I do myself, and how primitive of tools can I do it with?" Eat my pungent brown eggs, Ferguson!

 

[EPS]

I didn't think you could ever sell a 80% that you completed.
You would then be a manufacturer....

On the note of traceability, buddy asked if I had a metal detector. He had hidden some gear in his yard, and couldn't remember where....

Your only a manufacturer if you do so many in a year and make a profit from it LOL I'M NOT A LAWYER so that's just what I have heard

 

[EPS]

well that would explain my hunch on why I didn't think any dealers would ever do it... lol.
Thank you for clarifying that. Didnt know.

this whole 80% thing would be fun and is tempting but its just the prohibitive cost in tooling that gets me.



not exactly, that is if I understand correctly you just cant be in the business of manufacturing firearms. Similar to being in business to sell firearms, but you can still sell a used gun.

I suggest you start off with a cheap kit lol believe me I have made a few mistakes on a few when I tried my first one

 

[EPS]

I did a poly 80% like someone said i think Iron monster you really need good tools to do it right the 100 dollar drill press and the 60 dollar X vice will work for a polymer lower but when you get into the aluminum ones it's better to have a good machine shop to do the work in and by the way TOO BE LEGAL YOU MUST DO THE WORK YOUR SELF you can't pay a machine shop or have your buddy that is a machinist do it he can help you by telling how to do this or that but you should be at the controls doing the work

 

[Diamondback]

Yup. Buy at least two polys to practice on before graduating to metal, expect to totally screw over your first and possibly second if you're new to machining or using less-than-optimal tools. *shoots embarrassed look at first lower and cordless drill*

And if they come out OK anyway, you've got a lower for a cheap crappy plinker as a bonus.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

I am trying real hard to wrap my mind around the 80% lower concept. Theres some neat jigs on the market right now but the 80% lowers are still as much as finished lowers. I know the only reason isnt economic but Ive never been able to finish an order for a 3 pack and Jig set. It would be fun to have a few totally unmarked guns for no other reason than I can.

I try to understand the concept behind some people who buy, build, then turn around and advertise their 80% lowers....

I have the understanding that an 80% lower is "eyes off" for the feds.., but some may turn around and broadcast their 80% lower on an open www thread....perplexed emoticon.

Not putting 2 and 2 together on this one; another example..

Similarly, people who ride their bike along a highway to be healthy and to.....live longer...?

As usual, I must be missing something..

 

[bolus]

Why would anyone spend huge amounts of time hand building a hot rod car? Why would anyone buy all the woodworking tools and equipment just to build a few chairs and a table or two? Why do people hand tie fly's for fishing?

The concept of 'mastery" as a motivation. Same reason why people practice guitar when they will never play in a band.

 

[The Heretic]

Its not debatable at all.

You are under no obligation to show a chain of custody even to an FFL in another state. Ive sold several guns over the years that transferred to dealers other states. Dont ask me where they went. I verified the FFL's info at the time. I verified the FFL received the gun and then destroyed the records because I am NOT required to retain them.

Anything is debatable in court.

If you actually do sell it to an FFL, then that is likely to work better in court than just telling the LE and court and judge to go pound sand, to prove that you did not sell the firearms.

My point was that a person that wants plausible deniability - enough that they can tell LE (via a lawyer) to go pound sand, that yes, I bought these guns in Orygun, but I then moved to XYZ and that state does not require BGCs for private sales, so prove in court that I did not sell them there. At that point they may be able to get a search warrant - so if you still have the firearms, you better have hidden them where they can't be found.

This is why many people want the 80% lowers - because then if you have a record of your other firearms having been sold, you still have the 'unregistered' firearms that the gov. does not know about. Again, they may be able to get a warrant regardless so those firearms better not be hidden under your mattress.

 

[The Heretic]

I try to understand the concept behind some people who buy, build, then turn around and advertise their 80% lowers....

I have the understanding that an 80% lower is "eyes off" for the feds.., but some may turn around and broadcast their 80% lower on an open www thread....perplexed emoticon.

Those people may have a dozen other 80% lowers.

They now have a hobby. I can think of worse ones.

 

[IronMonster]

I try to understand the concept behind some people who buy, build, then turn around and advertise their 80% lowers....

I have the understanding that an 80% lower is "eyes off" for the feds.., but some may turn around and broadcast their 80% lower on an open www thread....perplexed emoticon.

Not putting 2 and 2 together on this one; another example..

Similarly, people who ride their bike along a highway to be healthy and to.....live longer...?

As usual, I must be missing something..

Yep... Your missing the fact that the fact a 80% lower was not recorded on a 4473 means absolutely nothing to me. I put serial numbers on them and treat them just like any other firearm. I have bought many hundreds firearms recorded on a 4473 and I only have maybe 50 of them still in my possession. You think a dozen "off the books" firearms matter at all if the feds come knocking on my door? Not in the slightest. I have two dozen NFA items, If the FED's have a list, I am already on it. I follow the law and have no need of a "ghost gun". I built guns purely for the enjoyment of building guns. I put serial numbers on them and recorded them because in my opinion it is silly to have a firearm with no means of establishing ownership.

If the FED's start knocking on doors to confiscate guns ALL of mine will already be someplace they wont find them, not just the 80% builds.

I understand I might not be the typical 80% guy, but then again I might be. I don't think the majority of 80% guns get built to hide from the FEDS

 

[P7M13]

Yep... Your missing the fact that the fact a 80% lower was not recorded on a 4473 means absolutely nothing to me. I put serial numbers on them and treat them just like any other firearm. I have bought many hundreds firearms recorded on a 4473 and I only have maybe 50 of them still in my possession. You think a dozen "off the books" firearms matter at all if the feds come knocking on my door? Not in the slightest. I have two dozen NFA items, If the FED's have a list, I am already on it. I follow the law and have no need of a "ghost gun". I built guns purely for the enjoyment of building guns. I put serial numbers on them and recorded them because in my opinion it is silly to have a firearm with no means of establishing ownership.

If the FED's start knocking on doors to confiscate guns ALL of mine will already be someplace they wont find them, not just the 80% builds.

I understand I might not be the typical 80% guy, but then again I might be. I don't think the majority of 80% guns get built to hide from the FEDS

Agree 100%. Well said.
I'm not in your league, @IronMonster, but I do completely identify with the notion of building for the satisfaction of it.
I don't bother with an 80%, because, IMO, you need the right tool for the job, and I'd prefer to first get my 1-1/2 HP Bridgeport copy. I'd be waay happier if I had an EDM to boot. I've bid on machining centers and lathes a few times, but again, I'm not even close to that "other" league you are in (P..R). <<== that yellow smiley was actually PoOR (Plenty of Operating Revenue).
That said, the AR's I have built using parts from multiple sources, I prefer and enjoy a LOT more than the complete ones I've purchased.

@Oathkeeper1775 , I can understand the people riding bikes along the freeway. It's one of the few places you will find a huge shoulder on the roadway (though I think the dust will kill you faster if you're not hit first). I rode a lot when I lived in Salem, and was nearly hit too many times to count. I know two people who have been hit by drivers while out bike riding, one had a 6+ month recovery. Drivers are stupid and distracted, and I don't feel comfortable even riding in the bike lanes anymore, so stay off any arterial roads unless absolutely necessary.

 

[Koda]

the only advantage the 80% has is if someone has never ever filled out a 4473, all that means is the man wont knock on his door. The guy who has filled out a 4473 will have his 80% he doesn't have to give an alibi for but has has to go thru the interregation. But at the end of the day both people are still in the same boat as any other person hiding contraband if it came to that.

 

[IronMonster]

the only advantage the 80% has is if someone has never ever filled out a 4473, all that means is the man wont knock on his door. The guy who has filled out a 4473 will have his 80% he doesn't have to give an alibi for but has has to go thru the interregation. But at the end of the day both people are still in the same boat as any other person hiding contraband if it came to that.

If it comes to having to explain to anyone in the government what happened to your firearm collection the best defence might be living in a small Idaho community. I am on the Fire department and a EMT and so have had lots of chances to talk to local law enforcement about guns. I can tell you where I live there won't be a door to door collection by the FEDS without first removing all of the local police who will 100% be on the side of the American people and the 2nd Amendment. My community and many like it around the country will not be giving up their guns.

 

[Koda]

oh I know and agree, I was talking the hypothetical reason people build 80% guns... "in case".

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Having never "done" an 80% lower, I cannot-yet fully appreciate the number of other reasons to build one; but this discussion helped a lot.

Thanks for sharing the other perspectives..

 

[notazombie]

Put me in the "I like to build stuff" category. I've worked on or built more cars, motorcycles, sandrails, etc. than I can recall and quickly lose interest once they're done. On to the next one.

 

[dangerranger60]

80% for me represent a learning curve. after building a working AK, and a few AR's, I tried my hand at 1911's. Now there is not much I couldn't build. And now I could carve out an AR lower using a cheap drill press and cross vise. Because I know how!

If push came to shove I could turn out pretty good single shot rifles and shotguns from my own garage shop.

And all because I learned the skills building 80% kits! DR