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I am a face shooter, so every caliber works for me.
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I seriously doubt so many police and military agencies (aside from the tin foil hat conspiracies) would choose anything for the protection of their officers and soldiers that hasn't been proven to be effective.
While it is true that many departments actually do the research into ammo and caliber, we often get as many different opinions as seen on this thread. The bottom line for police departments is sadly not proven performance, but "the bottom line." Co$t is a major factor with many departments which issue pistols and ammo. To many times the bean counters overrule the department's firearms trainers.
By-the-way most cops are not firearms experts.
Would you honestly make that same claim for every police department, every law enforcement agency and every military branch around the world that have relied on 9mm for decades? All of them only care about money? Protecting lives means nothing to them? Your point may be valid in some cases, but I have a feeling that as much as some of these folks want to save money, many more want to stop the threat and protect the lives of their men and women in uniform as well as civilians.
As I've already stated, I like 9, 40 and 45, no hate for any of them. I believe them all to be effective for the purposes for which they have been designed.
Of course I would not make such a claim for every military, or police unit. Re-read my post, I said "many" not "every," or even "most." Many. I'm just sharing my 40+ years as a military and police firearms instructor. Take it or leave it, I really don't care. For what it's worth, I was fortunate to have worked for a department that took our advice on firearms and ammo, but some of our neighboring departments did not. We were issued Sig Saur pistols in our choice of caliber, and all duty ammo was high quality HP.
Have a nice day.
Well said, slim.Who'd a thunk a caliber thread would go full we todd lol.
And I conceded in my response that some likely do put money over safety. The point really had to do with whether 9mm is truly an effective round. And I simply believe that just because some agencies may choose it for cost reasons is no reason to dismiss the effectiveness of the caliber altogether (I'm not suggesting you are doing so - but others do).
We can disagree, that doesn't bother me, I just wanted to take the opportunity to respond.
Not sure how a 5"10 175 pound guy can't handle a .45 ACP... It has a smooth recoil to me, and I'm only 160 at 5"8.5'7 to 5'10, 150 to 175 pound guy
Not sure how a 5"10 175 pound guy can't handle a .45 ACP... It has a smooth recoil to me, and I'm only 160 at 5"8.
After they remove it from their bubblegum."These new guys arent shooters, wrestlers, football players or wrestlers. Many of them are more of the marathon runner types with less than solid wrists........"
You're right about that...but thanks to years constant texting they should be able to lift a good sized car with their thumbs
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Meh, they can eventually get up to a .45. Honestly, I always prefer a .45 over a 9mm. I like a smooth push vs. a snap no matter how light.These new guys arent shooters, wrestlers, football players or wrestlers. Many of them are more of the marathon runner types with less than solid wrists........
I do know many agencies have gone back to 9mm because of the difficulty that smaller shooters have with bigger framed guns that fit the 45 and 10mm and cant deal with the 40 and 357 sig recoil in lightweight polymer framed guns. Officers failing to qualify is a problem nationwide.
The typical new hire isnt the 6'2 to 6'5, 210 to 240 pound man anymore. Its the 5'3 to 5'7, 140 pound woman or the 5'7 to 5'10, 150 to 175 pound guy. And most of them arent shooters.
These new guys arent shooters, wrestlers, football players or wrestlers. Many of them are more of the marathon runner types with less than solid wrists........
"These new guys arent shooters, wrestlers, football players or wrestlers. Many of them are more of the marathon runner types with less than solid wrists........"
You're right about that...but thanks to years constant texting they should be able to lift a good sized car with their thumbs
View attachment 255569