45 Haters

[Sgt Nambu]

Because modern science has proven that the .45 is based on old world ammunition science. Back in the .45 ACP days a bigger bullet meant a better round for killing. The US military proved that the .45 ACP was superior than the 9mm. However with the advent of JHP and modern ammunition manufacturing a round must achieve a certain level of penetration and expansion to be considered a lethal round. A .45 JHP versus a 9mm JHP have almost identical expansion. A .45 can expand around 5-6 inches versus a 4.5-5 inch expansion out of a 9mm.

A common misconception by civilians is that special forces/ navy seals / marine recon / etc etc use .45 ACP. The only reason why those units use the .45 is because of international treaties barring the use of hollow point ammo. Without expansion a .45 ACP is a drastically much superior round. Wound channel ballistics of a .45ACP versus a 9mm WITHOUT expansion can be over 35 percent more lethal. HOWEVER with expansion the difference is less than 10 percent in most cases.

This is why the FBI is going back to 9mm and this is why the .45 is entering the same realm as many guns we thought to be the epitomes of manhood.

Or simply. Because technology

Oh! No,No,No! Now you've done it! Equated manliness to bullet diameter!

It is perfectly obvious that manly men carry .45's and girly men carry 9's!

We 'don need no stinking scientific evidence!

 

[mortre]

The funniest part of the 9mm vs 45 debate is that we debate it at all. Most handguns are only available in one or the other, so there really is no reason to debate it at all. Switching platforms over something as inconsequential as diameter or capacity is just a bad idea to start with.

Personally I hate fat grips, never seem to be able to control them well. I'm somewhat recoil sensitive so I dislike subcompact and light weight guns. So I'm left with single stack service sized guns or steel framed compacts. Guess what caliber almost all of my handguns are.

 

[Certaindeaf]

My main issue is with either using fmj's.
So many of both actually do use them for defense and even for trying to bring down medium game (humans are medium game.. don't do that). I remember back in the day when people actually invariably used the RCBS 200gr SWC for paper and meat.. or they didn't. see above

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Some forums call that section the "Wasteland"

An obdurate wasteland.

It really-is a classic William James (the father of pragmatism for some people) discussion.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

My main issue is with either using fmj's.
So many of both actually do use them for defense and even for trying to bring down medium game (humans are medium game.. don't do that). I remember back in the day when people actually invariably used the RCBS 200gr SWC for paper and meat.. or they didn't. see above

Fmj's are great for target practice and that's about it,, unless you have to apply to international rules of war.

All this talk about one over the is BS.
If it works, use it.

Now.... Let's see,, why all the love for Mosins? I dare ya to start.

 

[mjbskwim]

I warned against wrestling with a pig.


Look what we've done!
Were all covered in mud and slop! And the pigs a dancing with glee.

But I tell you what. When it comes slaughtering day. The pigs are gona find out just how good a well placed little .22 short can get the job done!

Now there's a good one,22mag VS 45 acp
A guy in Sequim was telling me he shot a pig with his 45.poke a nice big hole.
Pig went down sprang up and ran off.
Said when he shot them with his 22mag they stayed down
Imma start carrying a single 9

 

[Sgt Nambu]

^^^I love my Mosin because it is just like me.
1. Old
2. Ugly
3. Tall
4. Clunky
5. Smells old and greasy
6. The bayonet doesn't work right anymore

 

[djblingbling1]

Im a 9mm guy but the fact that the .45 is as american as it gets, it will always have a place in my gun cabinet.

 

[Medic!]

Fukkkkk Ya! Merikkkkka!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[elsie]

Back in the day, when we had to go qualify on the 1911, our company was paired with a company of SPARs (CG Women's Reserve - actually just the reserves by then). The range master picked out the smallest, most petite one he could find and had her demonstrate. She had never fired a gun of any type before. She handled the recoil just fine and most qualified easily. Personally I think the recoil problems attributed to the 45 ACP are bunk, unless you have a medical condition like tendonitis.


elsie

 

[Medic!]

What gun?

In my 12oz Doubletap the 45ACP will make you bleed.

In a 38oz 1911 it's not so bad.

Most modern guns are lighter than guns of the same caliber made years ago.

 

[U201494]

9mm is a perfectly adequate round but it doesn't properly compensate for my small willy like a .45.

I own a 9 mm to compensate for my gargantuan willy, looks like we cancel each other out.

 

[3MTA3]

In case it hasn't already come up here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

Hopefully not against the rules to share this:


The good 'ole .45ACP still stacks up pretty good for effectiveness. I still use a 9, because it's easier for me to control, most people can't hit a moving target outside of 25 feet, and most people can't hit a moving target inside of 20 feet if they are running directly at them with a knife before they get stabbed.

 

[EUGENE the REALTOR]

Too bad +p isn't on that chart...

 

[BrentN]

.44 mag FTW! Okay, so that's what I lug around my little plot since seeing fresh bear scat and pics on the trailcams. Glock 30 for when I mingle with the more dangerous species.. but I'm a larger than average frame, 2 more lbs isn't slowing me down any. That being said, I consider myself a true champion of diversity; I love them all, and can come up with great excuses to own/carry/shoot any caliber or action type. Kinda like debating blond vs blonde vs brunette vs redhead, you know, whatever racks your slide.

 

[3MTA3]

Too bad +p isn't on that chart...

In the recommendations there are several +p rounds listed, but no gel shots.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Ok, true story, my daughter kills her Elk with a .338 Winchester magnum on a regular basis, she's smaller than most reading this, I on the other hand prefer my "old o6" m70.

I've been known to carry my .380 as my EDC, don't think for a second that it's not as deadly as that .338 given its use and reason for it.

 

[Certaindeaf]

In case it hasn't already come up here: http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

Hopefully not against the rules to share this:
View attachment 255711
.

The issue/thing about that old thang is that a 9mm 115 goes 1550. done deal

 

[156256Hunter]

The issue/thing about that old thang is that a 9mm 115 goes 1550. done deal

You're talking about +p+ loads. Why not then just get a .357 sig, in a pistol that's built to take that abuse?

 

[mortre]

What gun?

In my 12oz Doubletap the 45ACP will make you bleed.

In a 38oz 1911 it's not so bad.

Most modern guns are lighter than guns of the same caliber made years ago.

My first handgun was a Springfield Armory Micro Compact. It was a beast of an aluminum framed 3" 1911. Dead nuts reliable and amazingly accurate, when you did your part. Unfortunately doing your part was difficult when it felt like you were holding on tight to a firecracker every time you pulled the trigger. Size and weight are too often overlooked in self defense guns. That, I think, is the real secret to the 9mm. You can stuff it in a much smaller and lighter package before it becomes unmanageable. And when you can find it in a service sized, steel framed gun, it truly shines.