45 Haters

[No_Regerts]

The other day we had to do a two day course on how to motivate people to make good decisions and be more sensitive (treat them differently) based on their diverse background.

I asked, "but isnt that profiling?" I got some dirty looks from the trainers on that one.

 

[BoonDocks36]

.... Recall, that for Decades, the common Police issue in Europe was 32 ACP.... It took some persuading but they finally got Up To 9X19, except a few Pinker Countries where 9X18 was the rule....

The only really great Posts in this every third month Debate are those that suggested to Others, to shoot what works for them.

I love teaching shooting to woman that have BOTH the Zero trigger time & Gunz is Scary thinking... I recall one going through Three Boxes of Sellier & Bellot 32ACP in my Kel-Tec P32.... At the End of Day, I had to Beg for her to give up MY Pistol

Shoot what Works. Keep Shooting until threat is stopped. Head Shots are a nice method of saying "May I give you a Head Ache, Please"?????

(Just like with the Blu-Ray players..... Can We All just agree NOT To Start another Projectile War, err, I mean a "Mine is better that urine's") Thread... For At Least Six Month's????

Geesh.

philip

 

[etrain16]

.... Recall, that for Decades, the common Police issue in Europe was 32 ACP.... It took some persuading but they finally got Up To 9X19, except a few Pinker Countries where 9X18 was the rule....

The only really great Posts in this every third month Debate are those that suggested to Others, to shoot what works for them.

I love teaching shooting to woman that have BOTH the Zero trigger time & Gunz is Scary thinking... I recall one going through Three Boxes of Sellier & Bellot 32ACP in my Kel-Tec P32.... At the End of Day, I had to Beg for her to give up MY Pistol

Shoot what Works. Keep Shooting until threat is stopped. Head Shots are a nice method of saying "May I give you a Head Ache, Please"?????

(Just like with the Blu-Ray players..... Can We All just agree NOT To Start another Projectile War, err, I mean a "Mine is better that urine's") Thread... For At Least Six Month's????

Geesh.

philip

I'm surprised Joe hasn't created a separate area of the forum for this debate already. Maybe a sub forum under Ammo Discussion - a separate forum for haters and lovers of each caliber?

I love teaching new shooters too, especially if it makes pro-gun converts out of former anti-gunners - bonus if it's a lady.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Wow! Five pages on this one!

 

[albin25]

"Wow! Five pages on this one!"

That's only because they're kinda small pages (20 coms-per)...It gets the job done, but if it takes too many pages the comments tend to diverge from the original topic...While that's ok for day to day commenting, to handle the occasional fast response, high cap. topic you may need something more up to the task.

Now, If they loaded this site with a larger size page (like, say 45 coms-per), we'd only have used a tiny bit over 2 pages to cover the same ground.

As they say, It's a trade-off. Does a site always use a 45 on the off chance there'll be a heavily trafficked Topic or is the long used 20 ok for day to day volumes and continue to use extra pages if demand forces it, and hope the extra pages stay on target.
As usual It depends on the skill and experience of the commenters.

 

[Kid@Heart]

I guess little boys never get tired of measuring and comparing.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

This thread seems to be more about resisting or affecting change, than it is about the .45. Let the ballistics speak for themselves.

I over-saw my units' transitions from the M16 A1 to the A2s, from the A2s to the M4s, the 1911s to the M9s, the M60's to the M240Bs.......

From the Sheridan tanks to the M48A5s, the M220 TOW tracks to the ITVs, from the ITVs to the Bradleys, from jeeps to the HMMWVs....3 versions of the T10 parachutes....OG107s to BDUs, M7 bayo to the M9....

Too much band-width the to go over all the radio's, NVGs, chemical warfare stuff, and optics

Its nice to be retired and having the ability to do whatever I want, but....I remember being patronized or ignored when pointing-out flaws in new equipment.

Hindsight...being resistive to change only offers less perspective on any given issue.

 

[Certaindeaf]

This thread seems to be more about resisting or affecting change, than it is about the .45. Let the ballistics speak for themselves.

I over-saw my units' transitions from the M16 A1 to the A2s, from the A2s to the M4s, the 1911s to the M9s, the M60's to the M240Bs.......

From the Sheridan tanks to the M48A5s, the M220 TOW tracks to the ITVs, from the ITVs to the Bradleys, from jeeps to the HMMWVs....3 versions of the T10 parachutes....OG107s to BDUs, M7 bayo to the M9....

Too much band-width the to go over all the radio's, NVGs, chemical warfare stuff, and optics

Its nice to be retired and having the ability to do whatever I want, but....I remember being patronized or ignored when pointing-out flaws in new equipment.

Hindsight...being resistive to change only offers less perspective on any given issue.

So that's code for..?
9mm 500+ fpe per trigger press is kinda a simple concept for me to understand.

 

[Certaindeaf]

"Wow! Five pages on this one!"

That's only because they're kinda small pages (20 coms-per)...It gets the job done, but if it takes too many pages the comments tend to diverge from the original topic...While that's ok for day to day commenting, to handle the occasional fast response, high cap. topic you may need something more up to the task.

Now, If they loaded this site with a larger size page (like, say 45 coms-per), we'd only have used a tiny bit over 2 pages to cover the same ground.

As they say, It's a trade-off. Does a site always use a 45 on the off chance there'll be a heavily trafficked Topic or is the long used 20 ok for day to day volumes and continue to use extra pages if demand forces it, and hope the extra pages stay on target.
As usual It depends on the skill and experience of the commenters.

Exactly! A parallel is that the .45 is so slow that folk get so absolutely bored waiting for the "clang" that they lose interest and buy a real gun.. chambered for the 9x19.

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

So that's code for..?
9mm 500+ fpe per trigger press is kinda a simple concept for me to understand.

Ill try to answer that for ya; "Code talk" for the more experience with firearms, the better.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Ill try to answer that for ya; "Code talk" for the more experience with firearms, the better.

Well I never!

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Exactly! A parallel is that the .45 is so slow that folk get so absolutely bored waiting for the "clang" that they lose interest and buy a real gun.. chambered for the 9x19.

Care to disambiguate one of your comments? Are you saying that an m1911, chambered in .45 is not a real gun?

 

[whiskeybill]

When it comes to any gun, or any gun argument pertaining to "stopping power" or whatever, one must ask oneself: "Would I want to be shot with "fill in the blanks"?? I can tell you, I was accidentally shot in the leg with a .22 LR 35 years ago, and I spent a week in the hospital. The bullet had hit the tibia (shin bone) and cracked it lengthwise, not completely breaking the bone through. Eight weeks in a cast. The bullet was fragmented to the point that the doctor left it in the bone. The surgery would have done more damage and wouldn't have been worth it. It has never bothered me, and the tiny little scar on my leg is nearly unnoticeable now. At the time, once the shock had worn off, it was quite a painful experience. The event had effectively stopped me from carrying on in any normal fashion.
Some of the arguments over stopping power and enough gun are valid. Some years ago I was looking through a book that a law enforcement friend had, called "Street Survival". In this book, there was a discussion on the 9mm and it's effects. Two police officers had encountered a violent suspect that was later confirmed to be on PCP. The officers had both emptied one magazine each into this chap before he finally fell dead. Autopsy photos showed that most shots were center of mass, with the killing shots being to the head.
There have been advances in bullet design and construction, as well as powders, that make the 9mm a more effective round, and today the majority of LE agencies are issuing 9mm handguns. I see nothing wrong with the 9mm. I own one. But then, I have a 45, a 40 S&W, and a 10mm, as well as the standard wheel guns.
At the end of the day, it all boils down to what you are comfortable with and what you are proficient with. If push comes to shove, and all you have on hand to defend yourself is a 22, well, it's better than the 9mm or 45 you don't have. Did I mention that I don't care to ever be shot again, with anything, in any part of my body??

 

[ZS27]

Skip all of those and get a 10mm revovler magnum power in a semi auto what's not to love

 

[156256Hunter]

Exactly! A parallel is that the .45 is so slow that folk get so absolutely bored waiting for the "clang" that they lose interest and buy a real gun.. chambered for the 9x19.

Sounds like you're talking about some type of "long range" shooting with a pistol. I don't use my .45 for leisurely long range pot shots. I use a "real gun" (rifle) for that. I carry a .45 for short range self-defense.

So if I'm out in the woods or wherever and faced with one of those situations, I'll be looking to empty my mag in a matter of seconds, and then going for a reload.

What I'm not doing in that situation is waiting after the first shot to see whether it hits.

 

[Vanillagerrilla]

I dont think .45 cares if you hate it or not....

 

[mjbskwim]

I'm surprised Joe hasn't created a separate area of the forum for this debate already. Maybe a sub forum under Ammo Discussion - a separate forum for haters and lovers of each caliber?

I love teaching new shooters too, especially if it makes pro-gun converts out of former anti-gunners - bonus if it's a lady.

Some forums call that section the "Wasteland"

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I shoot a 40S&W better than any round so I sold them all the others (9mm and 45) and bought 2 XDM40's. It works for me so find out what works for you and get on with life, no need for haters.

Oh, come on Jim! No haters here, no fun here!

 

[Medic!]

I warned against wrestling with a pig.


Look what we've done!
Were all covered in mud and slop! And the pigs a dancing with glee.

But I tell you what. When it comes slaughtering day. The pigs are gona find out just how good a well placed little .22 short can get the job done!

 

[NSDQ]

Because modern science has proven that the .45 is based on old world ammunition science. Back in the .45 ACP days a bigger bullet meant a better round for killing. The US military proved that the .45 ACP was superior than the 9mm. However with the advent of JHP and modern ammunition manufacturing a round must achieve a certain level of penetration and expansion to be considered a lethal round. A .45 JHP versus a 9mm JHP have almost identical expansion. A .45 can expand around 5-6 inches versus a 4.5-5 inch expansion out of a 9mm.

A common misconception by civilians is that special forces/ navy seals / marine recon / etc etc use .45 ACP. The only reason why those units use the .45 is because of international treaties barring the use of hollow point ammo. Without expansion a .45 ACP is a drastically much superior round. Wound channel ballistics of a .45ACP versus a 9mm WITHOUT expansion can be over 35 percent more lethal. HOWEVER with expansion the difference is less than 10 percent in most cases.

This is why the FBI is going back to 9mm and this is why the .45 is entering the same realm as many guns we thought to be the epitomes of manhood.

Or simply. Because technology