357 Magnum Wadcutter Development - Bone Crusher

[mr.revolverguy]

Many before me have discussed 38 special wadcutter it's accuracy and it's ability to be a crusher. Ed Harris documented the effects of the DEWC (full wadcutter) in 38 special very well for us to reflect upon all of it's goodness.

This got me to thinking if it was this good and still yet very capable today would it not be better in 357 Magnum? Only one problem stood in my way. I could not find one manufacturer producing 357 Magnum Full Wadcutter today. With the popularity of this round surely there would be loads documented some where for the reloading addict like myself. Google enters here, sure there are a lot of people talking about it but nothing well documented. As a matter of fact some of the loads that was documented is downright scary. I searched hi and low and nothing I would trust, most amazing I could not find any type of load even in reloading manuals dating back to the 80's. This lack of data inspired me and started me on this journey to create Mr.Revolverguy's 357 Magnum Bone Crusher.

Being a user of Quickload Ballistics for 5 years or more now and with about 4 loading manuals sprawled across my desk I knew I had all the right tools to be successful in my mission.

This is my first test of this load to chronograph the recipe and get velocity numbers.

Test Number two will most likely be testing in ballistics gelatin.

I am also taking suggestions of other test that can be safely completed to prove out Mr.Revolverguy's 357 Magnum Bone Crusher.

The loads utilized in this video was operated safely but should not be used in your firearm without loading down by 10% and working up. If you elect to utilize any of this data it is at your own risk, you take full ownership and responsibility for your ammunition and any action

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[Member 34319]

I've been thinking of trying something like this, thanks for posting!

 

[Twodogs]

Back in the day we used to load hollow based wadcutters backwards and thought they where cool, but after shooting a few things with them decided to go back to hollow points.

 

[mr.revolverguy]

Have you shot any of the Federal 130gr they are devastating I have tested them in gel also WOW. I am totally comfortable now in them, I did try to replicate my own but of course the advanced bullet technology of Federal make them so much better.

 

[PPCguy]

Many before me have discussed 38 special wadcutter it's accuracy and it's ability to be a crusher. Ed Harris documented the effects of the DEWC (full wadcutter) in 38 special very well for us to reflect upon all of it's goodness.

This got me to thinking if it was this good and still yet very capable today would it not be better in 357 Magnum? Only one problem stood in my way. I could not find one manufacturer producing 357 Magnum Full Wadcutter today. With the popularity of this round surely there would be loads documented some where for the reloading addict like myself. Google enters here, sure there are a lot of people talking about it but nothing well documented. As a matter of fact some of the loads that was documented is downright scary. I searched hi and low and nothing I would trust, most amazing I could not find any type of load even in reloading manuals dating back to the 80's. This lack of data inspired me and started me on this journey to create Mr.Revolverguy's 357 Magnum Bone Crusher.

Being a user of Quickload Ballistics for 5 years or more now and with about 4 loading manuals sprawled across my desk I knew I had all the right tools to be successful in my mission.

This is my first test of this load to chronograph the recipe and get velocity numbers.

Test Number two will most likely be testing in ballistics gelatin.

I am also taking suggestions of other test that can be safely completed to prove out Mr.Revolverguy's 357 Magnum Bone Crusher.

The loads utilized in this video was operated safely but should not be used in your firearm without loading down by 10% and working up. If you elect to utilize any of this data it is at your own risk, you take full ownership and responsibility for your ammunition and any action

How can you draw any conclusions on having a nice group when you are shooting at almost point blank range? All accuracy tests should be at 50 yards using a machine rest if you really want to test custom loads..

 

[mr.revolverguy]

Feedback always welcome as we all know fact base self defense usually occurs at 7 to 12 yards. Now in the video I do say next test will be at 50 yards for true accuracy and stability as I have heard not seen that DEWC will tumble at 50 yards.

 

[PPCguy]

I have 40 years of Randsom Rest testing at 50 yards, mostly shooting 38 Special semi-wadcutters and full wadcutters. I have some times achieved better accuracy by placing the bullets in backwards. However, I have never tested full wadcutters at 50 yards using a magnum load. The bullet would need to be hard cast and lots of lubrication to keep the leading down to a minimum. Interesting test. Good luck.

 

[mr.revolverguy]

I have 40 years of Randsom Rest testing at 50 yards, mostly shooting 38 Special semi-wadcutters and full wadcutters. I have some times achieved better accuracy by placing the bullets in backwards. However, I have never tested full wadcutters at 50 yards using a magnum load. The bullet would need to be hard cast and lots of lubrication to keep the leading down to a minimum. Interesting test. Good luck.

PPCguy

How about some tips on ringing out the best accuracy from your Ransom -- I do have one myself and have used it on my channel before. But all my range tables are shaky as all get out LOL. I do have one concrete bench at the 50 but do to the shape sort of hard to get it attached.

 

[PPCguy]

I have mine anchored to a concrete slab using four 3/8 bolts. It doesn't move! The first thing you do is take off the trigger pulling lever and chuck it. Using it will result in faulty data. As far as supporting your machine, sink some concrete screws in your block of concrete and attach your machine to the base.

 

[mr.revolverguy]

I wish I could but I am sure the range would not appreciate me doing that wish I could use it on private land. SO you think the new trigger pulling mechanism will deliver mixed results?

 

[PPCguy]

I don't know what you mean by a new trigger pulling mechanism. My rest is 30 years old and works great. The mechanism that came on it needed to be removed. If you have something more modern it may work better.

 

[oremike]

I see in the Lee Modern Reloading book data for the 148gr DEWC in a 357 case. Velocity looks to be 900-1000 fps. IMHO with the longer bullet jump because the bullets need to be seated deep and the 38 Special level velocity I doubt you'll see match level accuracy. You might have better luck with a "Pin-Buster" type bullet.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Feedback always welcome as we all know fact base self defense usually occurs at 7 to 12 yards. Now in the video I do say next test will be at 50 yards for true accuracy and stability as I have heard not seen that DEWC will tumble at 50 yards.

PPC shooting is done with wadcutters at 50 yards.. for the last fifty years?
Anyway, didn't click what is essentially clickbait and people have been sending hardcast wadcutters downrange at greater speeds than the conventional 650 whopping fps for a very long time.

 

[mr.revolverguy]

For it to be clickbait I thought you had to get paid for it. I do this for the passion and love of what we do, I have not received a dime. It is more about the conversation and camaraderie to me and support of our 2A rights after having dedicated my entire young life to this great nation.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Every thread you make touts all kinds of data, findings, yada that can only actually be finally gotten, by clicking and watching your video.
That is class A clickbait.

 

[mr.revolverguy]

Oremike -- That's really what I would like to do next is test at difference because I wonder how much bullet jump/chamber transition would effect things. Hopefully soon. Thank you also for the reference to Lee.

 

[PPCguy]

Go ahead and test. I can quickly sum up my findings. I have 40 years of testing handguns on the Randsom Rest, mostly revolvers. A majority of the revolvers were custom bull barrels used in PPC competition. Some of my tightest groups were fired in L-Frame Smith & Wesson revolvers using full wadcutters, both swagged and cast. (Several groups under 2" at 50 yards.) Years ago I was discussing this with Bill Davis, the acclaimed bull barrel revolver builder of the70"s & 80's. More Davis guns have won national championship than any other custom revolver. (By the way, all Smith & Wesson's) He explained he investigated the bullet jump theory by machining the cylinder back to accept only a full 38 Spl wadcutter round. He then machined a barrel to protrude back to the cylinder to minimize bullet jump. His conclusion was that he did not achieve any better results than staying with standard chambers (both K-frame and L-frame) and standard barrel installations. I admit there is lots to be gained in rifle bullet seating to eliminate bullet yaw but my experience has shown it is minimal in revolvers. (Assuming the cylinder aligns with the barrel & verified by using a range rod.)

 

[oremike]

What I use for a deep penetrating, non expanding "bone-crusher" load is a Hardcast Truncated cone type bullet loaded to about 1300fps. I use a 180 gr in the 357 and 10mm and a 300gr in 44 Mag.

 

[mr.revolverguy]

PPCguy they do have a new product Ballistic Testing Remote Cable Pull System – Ransom International Corporation that's what I was talking about. I am not sure I am following when you say remove the trigger pull thing.

 

[PPCguy]

First of all, I apologize for misspelling Ransom. No, I have not seen the cable device as shown in the attached video. It looks like it works OK but I have to ask, why get one? Is pulling the trigger with your finger that difficult? When it comes to revolvers, many of them have noticable sideways slop in their triggers, which can be greatly improved with shims. But even with shims, there is some sideways movement which is telegraphed to the trigger/sear relationship which is then telegraphed to the hand which results in variations in lock up and barrel - cylinder alignment. This is why I use two fingers to operate a Ransom Rest because I can neutralize the back and forth motion of the trigger. To prove my point, dry fire a revolver that is close to being out of time. (Carefully!) You can make it be out of time just by dry firing left handed. That demonstrates how a straight back pull is critical to accurate testing. That's why I don't use a mechanical device to pull the trigger.