$240 AR15 triggers, why?

[LuLuBelle]

It's already been said, but yeah, it's like anything people are into and spend money on, fishing poles like mentioned, knives, coolers, tools, etc. You are going to pay 300%+ more to get 25% more performance. For some people, that 25% is what they are looking for and are willing to pay for it.

YUP. Its called "The Law of Diminishing Returns". To me, after spending $1500+ dollars on the best firearm I could afford, I went and spent another $900 on a scope because it doesn't matter how good my rifle is if I can't hit the dead center of what I am aiming at. Same thing with adding a $225 trigger. I guess I am in the middle of the road. Some peeps put even more $$$ into their firearm trying to squeeze the last few %%% out of it . Optics and trigger was my focus. They were worth every penny TO ME, and the results were outstanding. Now I'm SPOILED ROTTEN ;-)

Stay Vigilant ... Be Safe

 

[Pete F]

YUP. Its called "The Law of Diminishing Returns". To me, after spending $1500+ dollars on the best firearm I could afford, I went and spent another $900 on a scope because it doesn't matter how good my rifle is if I can't hit the dead center of what I am aiming at. Same thing with adding a $225 trigger. I guess I am in the middle of the road. Some peeps put even more $$$ into their firearm trying to squeeze the last few %%% out of it . Optics and trigger was my focus. They were worth every penny TO ME, and the results were outstanding. Now I'm SPOILED ROTTEN ;-)

Stay Vigilant ... Be Safe

Europeans would commonly spend 3x the cost of the rifle on an optic. The US has been behind the curve, for the most part. Mow many of you have Schmidt & Bender or better optics on their Remington 700, Winchester Model 70, Howa or Tikka?

I spent about the same amount for my scope/rings, Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x40mm (30mm) Side Focus CDS, as I did for my rifle, Remington 700 .308 VTR, which seems to be the normal for most Americans - at least for bolt action. By the way, I really like the X-Mark Pro trigger.

 

[TTSX]

Europeans would commonly spend 3x the cost of the rifle on an optic. The US has been behind the curve, for the most part. Mow many of you have Schmidt & Bender or better optics on their Remington 700, Winchester Model 70, Howa or Tikka?

I spent about the same amount for my scope/rings, Leupold VX-3 4.5-14x40mm (30mm) Side Focus CDS, as I did for my rifle, Remington 700 .308 VTR, which seems to be the normal for most Americans - at least for bolt action. By the way, I really like the X-Mark Pro trigger.

Im pretty sure "most" americans spend maybe half the value of the rifle on their scope. How else would the budget scope market be so strong? It's the same as people balking at $50 holsters for their $500 pistol and $1/round+ defense ammo they never actually shoot as if one box is a lifetime supply

 

[3MTA3]

I just ordered a kit from PSA that includes their version of the ACT, the
Enhanced Polished Trigger (EPT). It will be interesting to compare it to the ACT. They are currently out of stock except for lower kits, so I can't get a current price on just the trigger.

I built the lower today including the EPT. Side by side with the ACT, well, it's pretty close. The EPT has barely detectable creep compared to zero with the ACT. Perhaps after a few hundred rounds it might not be noticible at all. Mind you I had to close my eyes to focus to tell the difference, something not going to happen when actually shooting. The ACT breaks sharper, but the EPT has that "carrot break" vs the "glass rod" the Geiselle SSA-E has on the second stage.

The differences are really very subtle. If I wasn't as familiar with the ACT I might not even be able to tell the difference. To me the ACT is better, but I'm not enough to pay $70 to upgrade.

 

[223to45]

One thing that is not being discussed here is liability. I am firmly in the camp of a decent trigger being worth the price of admission. It makes for more accurate shooting.

But ... there is a potential issue if you go too light and use a firearm for self defense. It the trigger is in the range that is commonly assumed to be "match pull weight" versus "service or duty pull weight" you could be in for a challenge in both civil and criminal proceedings. Especially if it's not the original trigger that came from the original manufacturer.

This is a very grey area, and assumes opposing council knows something about firearms but it is a reality.

Food for though at least, right?

Can you show me at least one case file where someone was convicted for using a non stock trigger??

 

[3MTA3]

Can you show me at least one case file where someone was convicted for using a non stock trigger??

Sleazy prosecutors and civil suit attorneys have always used inflammatory terms when it comes to firearms like dum dum and cop killer bullets.

A "hair trigger" could make your defense a bit more complicated. I use heavier pull weights because in a tense situation I DON'T want an AD, but in that case el sleazo will simply term it a "combat trigger".

IMO use what you think will keep you alive, but be realistic about the differences between range accuracy tuning and self defense..

 

[DLS]

Can you show me at least one case file where someone was convicted for using a non stock trigger??

You are kidding right? I certainly hope so … since this issue is (well it seems "should be") common knowledge and warnings of this nature have been in circulation for well, just about forever.

The first article I saw regarding this was (if memory serves me well ) in SWAT magazine from the mid-80's. It was noted in that article that this was an "old" issue but one that still needs to be addressed from time to time to keep it fresh in peoples minds. Apparently the issue still need refreshing. There are countless other sources from defense attorneys, insurance companies, and expert witnesses like Massad Ayoob et. al.

Here's a good rendition from Ayoob himself:

 

[kbf64]

So I bought a $240 trigger, lol...

https://geissele.com/super-dynamic-3-gun-trigger.html

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Bought a Jerry Michulek Mossberg trigger this week. Holy moly that thing is set up to run fast. 2.5lbs out of the box (adjustable to 6lbs), adjustable overtravel. Seems to be made to really ride the trigger for max speed. Reset is short but really, really light, no pronounced "click". Haven't tried it out yet. Around $130ish reg prices with discount code but I have heard of it being around $97 on sale.

 

[Pete F]

Straight trigger or curved? I have never tried a straight trigger. There is a sale for an Elftmann Tactical Elftmann Service Trigger Straight SERVICE-S, 4 - 7 lb pull - $169, no anti-walk pins necessary and choice of straight or curved. I am not looking for a light match trigger and think that around 4.5 lbs would be fine. Comments?

 

[Roymil666]

Personally I much prefer straight bow; it seems to fit more shooters in my experience. Plus it seems to help with jerking or pulling you can get from improper finger position on a curved bow. Just my $.02.

 

[titsonritz]

Straight trigger or curved? I have never tried a straight trigger. There is a sale for an Elftmann Tactical Elftmann Service Trigger Straight SERVICE-S, 4 - 7 lb pull - $169, no anti-walk pins necessary and choice of straight or curved. I am not looking for a light match trigger and think that around 4.5 lbs would be fine. Comments?

100% personal preference, I didn't care for my flat trigger (SD-C) but plenty do, I ended up trading it off for another SSA.

 

[kbf64]

Straight trigger or curved? I have never tried a straight trigger. There is a sale for an Elftmann Tactical Elftmann Service Trigger Straight SERVICE-S, 4 - 7 lb pull - $169, no anti-walk pins necessary and choice of straight or curved. I am not looking for a light match trigger and think that around 4.5 lbs would be fine. Comments?

straight...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

You are kidding right? I certainly hope so … since this issue is (well it seems "should be") common knowledge and warnings of this nature have been in circulation for well, just about forever.

The first article I saw regarding this was (if memory serves me well ) in SWAT magazine from the mid-80's. It was noted in that article that this was an "old" issue but one that still needs to be addressed from time to time to keep it fresh in peoples minds. Apparently the issue still need refreshing. There are countless other sources from defense attorneys, insurance companies, and expert witnesses like Massad Ayoob et. al.

Here's a good rendition from Ayoob himself:

That video seems to be talking mostly about accidental and negligent discharges. "When using a light trigger under high stress" etc. Certainly it would apply in those situations. But if you shot the attacker you intended to shoot, I don't see how it would be much different than upgraded sights, using defensive ammo, or any other upgrade. I mean where does it stop? Anything you do to make your gun or your skills better could fall under the same category as "could be used against you". Fe the prosecutor could ask, "how much do you practice?" If you answered "twice a month", he could then say you practice twice a month to kill poeple so u are a trigger happy fanatic waiting for a chance to pull the trigger on someone.

 

[kbf64]

It's an excellent trigger, though I'm not sure it's worth $240... but it's says 3-gun as it's sold for competition use, maybe I'll find it to be good for that, or I just got suckered with marketing lol...

 

[EHJ]

So I bought a $240 trigger, lol...

https://geissele.com/super-dynamic-3-gun-trigger.html

You're gonna love it.
The reset - to - re-pull is the 'dynamic' part. If you just re-set with a light creep you'll feel the reset snap and then you'll realize you now have enough force for another trigger pull. It's hard to describe - but you'll see.

 

[Hueco]

It's an excellent trigger, though I'm not sure it's worth $240... but it's says 3-gun as it's sold for competition use, maybe I'll find it to be good for that, or I just got suckered with marketing lol...

I work in marketing. Don't feel bad. Suckering people is what we're good at.

 

[Wombat of Doom]

You're gonna love it.
The reset - to - re-pull is the 'dynamic' part. If you just re-set with a light creep you'll feel the reset snap and then you'll realize you now have enough force for another trigger pull. It's hard to describe - but you'll see.

It is a good trigger, but the SSP is my favorite G trigger by a LARGE margin. That with a flat trigger is in my preferences, perfection.

 

[Hummer]

If you are going to use your rifle for bad situations (SHTF etc) better stay with the factory trigger. The after market triggers advertise "decreased lock time", not many even know what it is and fewer have the skills needed to make one pay off.

Every one of the super triggers sport a lighter hammer which will result is less energy being delivered to the firing pin and a decrease in energy or speed of the hammer will up your odds of a failure to fire when needed.

I have four ARs, with target triggers as they are for TARGET shooting. If we get into a SHTF situation I am not going to be risking my life on any of them. In a bad situation they are the last line.

The name of the game in a bad situation is "HIT PROBABILITY" and a light trigger or two stage trigger is not going to increase hit probability but a scope, or a bipod will.

As Bill Jordan described in his book "no one has ever died as the result of a loud noise" in other words if you can't hit it you can't kill it and considering the 5.56 loses terminal wound ballistic performance (regardless of 55 or 62 grain weight) at 95 yards.

Do a search for Col Martin Fackler MD and you will learn major info on wound ballistics.

Even better go here, download the file and start reading:

Google Drive: Sign-in

Access Google Drive with a Google account (for personal use) or Google Workspace account (for business use).

drive.google.com

 

[Pete F]

If you are going to use your rifle for bad situations (SHTF etc) better stay with the factory trigger. The after market triggers advertise "decreased lock time", not many even know what it is and fewer have the skills needed to make one pay off.

Every one of the super triggers sport a lighter hammer which will result is less energy being delivered to the firing pin and a decrease in energy or speed of the hammer will up your odds of a failure to fire when needed.

I have four ARs, with target triggers as they are for TARGET shooting. If we get into a SHTF situation I am not going to be risking my life on any of them. In a bad situation they are the last line.

The name of the game in a bad situation is "HIT PROBABILITY" and a light trigger or two stage trigger is not going to increase hit probability but a scope, or a bipod will.

As Bill Jordan described in his book "no one has ever died as the result of a loud noise" in other words if you can't hit it you can't kill it and considering the 5.56 loses terminal wound ballistic performance (regardless of 55 or 62 grain weight) at 95 yards.

Do a search for Col Martin Fackler MD and you will learn major info on wound ballistics.

Even better go here, download the file and start reading:

Google Drive: Sign-in

Access Google Drive with a Google account (for personal use) or Google Workspace account (for business use).

drive.google.com

That is why I was leaning towards a mil-spec trigger, or at least close, like the Elftmann Tactical Elftmann Service Trigger SERVICE, 4 - 7 lb pull. I woud like one that doesn't feel like a two stage trigger and is smooth. I have a LWRC M6 A2 that is not broken in yet and the take-up feels like pulling a two stage trigger, which I guess is common with mil-spec triggers.