WW1 Soldier Kit (Load out)

[ageingstudent]

I need to catch back up with that series, VERY good series! Not a lot of that war gets aired these days.

Working my way frantically through 1916 right now trying to catch up

 

[Flymph]

Somebody smoked the camel straights in the OP's rations...

 

[Flymph]

Any one know off hand, the average combat load out of ammo for the M-1 Garand?
Looking through old photos and what little I can find, there is no mention of what amounts of ammo these guys carried! I don't recall Grand Dad ever mentioning it ether, Just curious! In my little mind, I would think 24 clips would be about right, but what the heck do I know? LOL

Pretty sure it was supposed to be about 8 or ten... count the pockets on an amo belt issued to infantrymen, it's that plus one. Soldiers were expected to hit targets and hold lines back then. Seems more often than not you would be lucky to have more than a few rounds tho, well off to have more than a full clip. Amo shortages lead to hoarding, which is probably why you think 24 clips. Guys would stuff their pockets full whenever able. How many they were issued as standard and how many they carried varies greatly.
I could be wrong, but I think that's about right.

 

[HuckleberryFun]

somewhere along the line I saw display kit from Napoleonic Wars thru WW2, with similar gear & minor changes of style.

A few years ago watching some Pacific Island hopping Newstone of the day. It said the typically supply gear the Jap soldiers carried was around 17# ammo/food/etc. GI grunts had supply of around 8 TONS per operation.

With a respectful nod to the Rangers, the fact is that America does not do "light infantry" very well. (A Stryker brigade riding in vehicles to the battle and walking the last 2 miles to the fight is NOT light infantry!) It's just part of our cultural mentality to load up and weigh ourselves down with lots of stuff we might need. That reminds me: need to get to Costco this weekend.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

My first unit I was assigned to after Baisc , Airborne and Ranger School was the 7th Infantry ( Light ).
We walked / humped / ran everydamnwhere...
Sadly the 7th is no longer active.

I have fond and frightful memories of the 7th both as first duty station and as first combat "tour"
( Panama , Invasion thereof 1989 )
Andy

 

[HuckleberryFun]

My first unit I was assigned to after Baisc , Airborne and Ranger School was the 7th Infantry ( Light ).
We walked / humped / ran everydamnwhere...
Sadly the 7th is no longer active.

I have fond and frightful memories of the 7th both as first duty station and as first combat "tour"
( Panama , Invasion thereof 1989 )
Andy

I remember you guys (7th Infantry Div) when you were at Fort Ord and I was next door at the Presidio of Monterey/DLI.
Nice to be posted to a place with an ocean view. Never did find the hot tubs the recruiter promised, though.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Well howdy neighbor... Yep Ft. Ord and the Presidio were so nice it made you wonder if the Army really had anything to do with it...
Andy

 

[etrain16]

Any one know off hand, the average combat load out of ammo for the M-1 Garand?
Looking through old photos and what little I can find, there is no mention of what amounts of ammo these guys carried! I don't recall Grand Dad ever mentioning it ether, Just curious! In my little mind, I would think 24 clips would be about right, but what the heck do I know? LOL

Interesting question. I found a thread where that was discussed on the CMP site. Here is one response by a guy that seems to know what he's talking about, take it for what it's worth:

The M1917, 1918 and 1923 cartridge belts for dismounted troops had 10 pockets, each pocket held two 5-round .30-06 stripper clips or one 8-round M1 Garand clip.

The M1917 and 1918 cartridge belts for mounted troops had 9 pockets for .30-06 and space for a 2-cell M1911 mag pouch. The dismounted belts were largely phased out during WWII or converted to mounted belts by sewing on an extra pocket.


So, the official "basic load" was 105 rounds for the M1903AX or M1917 or 88 rounds for the M1 Garand (loaded belt plus a loaded rifle). The M1923 cartridge belt was used through the Korean war and by the NG and other services using the Garand until that rifle was phased out and replaced by either the M14 or M16 (depending on circumstances and dates).

Having said all of the above, almost every written account of combat in WWI, WWII, and Korea where there is any description of the troops loading up with ammo before or during battle makes it clear that when extra ammo was available, most troops carried extra bandoleers of .30-06. So, while the official load was 105 or 88, most troops carried more, sometimes much more. How much more depended on the situation, I suppose.

Keep in mind that ,although the US "basic load" seems small by today's standards, in Europe, the German soldier only carried 65 rounds of 7.92mm in 5-round stripper clips. His ammo belt had two, 3-cell leather pouches. Each cell held two 5-round stripper clips. So, even with only the "basic load," the US soldier with the M1 Garand was carrying about 50% more ammo than his German enemy, not to mention that he had the better rifle. All things are relative.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

There is a YouTube channel called The Great War. It goes through the war week by week throughout the 100th anniversary of WW1. I'm binge watching it right now it's an excellent history. One of the best uses of YouTube I've ever seen.

Yep, I've watched it, WW1 is my favorite war to study! It's fascinating and, I say say again, I don't want to be there! Out!

 

[jackrv]

Somebody smoked the camel straights in the OP's rations...

As far as I know, there were no camel filters in that day and age. In fact, my dad smoked camels back in the 50s and no filters then either.

Jack

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Having said all of the above, almost every written account of combat in WWI, WWII, and Korea where there is any description of the troops loading up with ammo before or during battle makes it clear that when extra ammo was available, most troops carried extra bandoleers of .30-06. So, while the official load was 105 or 88, most troops carried more, sometimes much more. How much more depended on the situation, I suppose.

That makes perfect sense! You prepare for what you may face. Also, you carry what you can. I, routinely, carried an extra pouch of two mags for my M-14, because the infantry units that I was supporting (arty) carried M-16's. My RTO and I were on our own.
We often packed a belt for the M-60 guys. Sure! No problem! Why yes, it does fit these big, ol, chunky rifles! Thass an amazing coincidence, isn't it!

 

[awshoot]

Did you guys notice the trench mace/club in the British NCO's kit?

Definitely. Very medieval.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Working my way frantically through 1916 right now trying to catch up

Hey student, the Allies win! Oops, spoiler alert! LOLOL!!!

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Did you guys notice the trench mace/club in the British NCO's kit?

If I had a lot of discretionary income I'd collect those things!

That bottom one is a trench war walking stick! A real shillelagh!

 

[Ura-Ki]

Pretty sure it was supposed to be about 8 or ten... count the pockets on an amo belt issued to infantrymen, it's that plus one. Soldiers were expected to hit targets and hold lines back then. Seems more often than not you would be lucky to have more than a few rounds tho, well off to have more than a full clip. Amo shortages lead to hoarding, which is probably why you think 24 clips. Guys would stuff their pockets full whenever able. How many they were issued as standard and how many they carried varies greatly.
I could be wrong, but I think that's about right.

Good points! I was looking at the photo in post 14 that I posted which shows 25 clips of Garand on the LBE belt ( assuming a missing 5 pocket pouch under the M1911) and this is what led me to the conclusion of having 24 clips +1 in the rifle! That is 200 rounds of ammo, and while it may not exactly be standard, I think it would have been more common for WW-II. I know many would carry two Bandoleers of rifle ammo, ether in en-bloc clips or in stripper clips depending on weapon issued, and some would use B.A.R. bandoleers to carry their ammo, again, depending on weapon issued. ( note, There was no date on that photo I posted, it could very likely be from the Korean war!) as far as what the Army officially issued, I don't know, but knowing how the Mil operates, less would be likely, BUT experienced boots would have long sence modified their load out, and I think this is where no definitive answers can be found, and we are left to accounts from individuals that can and do vary widely! JMO

 

[Flymph]

Interesting question. I found a thread where that was discussed on the CMP site. Here is one response by a guy that seems to know what he's talking about, take it for what it's worth:

The M1917, 1918 and 1923 cartridge belts for dismounted troops had 10 pockets, each pocket held two 5-round .30-06 stripper clips or one 8-round M1 Garand clip.

The M1917 and 1918 cartridge belts for mounted troops had 9 pockets for .30-06 and space for a 2-cell M1911 mag pouch. The dismounted belts were largely phased out during WWII or converted to mounted belts by sewing on an extra pocket.


So, the official "basic load" was 105 rounds for the M1903AX or M1917 or 88 rounds for the M1 Garand (loaded belt plus a loaded rifle). The M1923 cartridge belt was used through the Korean war and by the NG and other services using the Garand until that rifle was phased out and replaced by either the M14 or M16 (depending on circumstances and dates).

Having said all of the above, almost every written account of combat in WWI, WWII, and Korea where there is any description of the troops loading up with ammo before or during battle makes it clear that when extra ammo was available, most troops carried extra bandoleers of .30-06. So, while the official load was 105 or 88, most troops carried more, sometimes much more. How much more depended on the situation, I suppose.

Keep in mind that ,although the US "basic load" seems small by today's standards, in Europe, the German soldier only carried 65 rounds of 7.92mm in 5-round stripper clips. His ammo belt had two, 3-cell leather pouches. Each cell held two 5-round stripper clips. So, even with only the "basic load," the US soldier with the M1 Garand was carrying about 50% more ammo than his German enemy, not to mention that he had the better rifle. All things are relative.

That's what I said, but in long winded italics. LoL

 

[HuckleberryFun]

That's what I said, but in long winded italics. LoL

Yeah. Don't forget the Italics fought in the war too.
Not very well, but with style!

 

[Flymph]

Good points! I was looking at the photo in post 14 that I posted which shows 25 clips of Garand on the LBE belt ( assuming a missing 5 pocket pouch under the M1911) and this is what led me to the conclusion of having 24 clips +1 in the rifle! That is 200 rounds of ammo, and while it may not exactly be standard, I think it would have been more common for WW-II. I know many would carry two Bandoleers of rifle ammo, ether in en-bloc clips or in stripper clips depending on weapon issued, and some would use B.A.R. bandoleers to carry their ammo, again, depending on weapon issued. ( note, There was no date on that photo I posted, it could very likely be from the Korean war!) as far as what the Army officially issued, I don't know, but knowing how the Mil operates, less would be likely, BUT experienced boots would have long sence modified their load out, and I think this is where no definitive answers can be found, and we are left to accounts from individuals that can and do vary widely! JMO

Yeah, it is most determined by when and where the soldier is at the time. Personal accounts will tell you what you could get, which is usually what troops had. Patrols usually carried extra amo, for instance. Where as paratroopers during battle of the bulge would be down to 1-3 rounds per man. All depends really.

 

[Pandaz3]

I had the same canteen cup and mess kit in Vietnam as WWI, used a WWII helmet and had a lot of WWII/Korea vintage "C" rations. Each C had a pack of four cigarettes, the older C's had mostly non-filters, newer ones had Old Gold's, Winston's, and as things got newer, Kent's, Newport's, Salem's. If you were in the field you would get sundry packs that had candy and cartons of Cigarettes, I got all the Pall Mall's, Lucky Strike's, Camel's and Chesterfield's as most wanted filter cigarettes. I carried six canteens of water....magic medicine.

Ammo, I was in the Army, my M-14 load initially was 100 rounds in five magazines, later I added two more magazines, but weight is weight and I carried six frag grenades too, enough for a wimpy medic like me. that was '65 Later on the return program In '66 I had a new M-16 and then I carried 19 magazines loaded with 18 rounds. (We did not have 30 round magazines when I was in the Infantry, they came after I left. I left in July '67. Infantry is just hard work. It was 30% jungle for us and the rest of the time, Rice paddies. Weigh yourself down and go walk in the mud up to your boot tops, water to the crotch, and always looking for the booby traps (IED's). Not fun

I came back in '69 as a pilot, left in '70 back in '71, left for good in '72

Light Infantry? in 66-67 I was in the 199th Light Infantry Brigade. We did go a few clicks by truck one time, but we used landing craft a lot. We crossed a lot of 'blues' with a rope. Had several drownings.

 

[jordanvraptor]

My paternal grandfather.