Woman shot at DC Rally...

[Catfishmoon]

"What does matter, is that she was a Patriot who loved her country, and was fighting those who want to destroy it."

We clearly have a different opinion on who is and is not a "Patriot"...
I will say that she had strong beliefs and was willing to back them with action.

 

[SunTzu]

Fog of war. Chaos. Pizz poor planning. Schit happens.

I heard that the evac order and process inside the Chamber was very poor and unprofessional. 3 people resigned as a result. But it may be that they had orders from Pelosi to stand down. Could be she wanted this to happen???

I could see the botched response being intentional, but also i agree that the comedy of errors could have been gross incompetence as well... I mean, this is the government after all.

 

[NW Backpacker]

"What does matter, is that she was a Patriot who loved her country, and was fighting those who want to destroy it."

We clearly have a different opinion on who is and is not a "Patriot"...
I will say that she had strong beliefs and was willing to back them with action.

Different opinions are OK I guess. I figure if she is willing to fight those who have vowed to destroy the: Constitution, 2nd Amendment, Supreme Court, border security, and basically destroy the nation, then she is a Patriot.

 

[Catfishmoon]

Different opinions are OK I guess. I figure if she is willing to fight those who have vowed to destroy the: Constitution, 2nd Amendment, Supreme Court, border security, and basically destroy the nation, then she is a Patriot.

I would say that Brian Sicknick, the Federal Law Enforcement Officer who was murdered in the line of duty, while opposing the rioters is a Patriot.

 

[SunTzu]

this

I would say that Brian Sicknick, the Federal Law Enforcement Officer who was murdered in the line of duty, while opposing the rioters is a Patriot.

i'm sure there's a lot of enemy soldiers that were good people too. The ashli shooting is a tough situation, and i don't know what the feds' orders were, but at some point the founding fathers made a decision where one day they were british and the next day they weren't.

Similarly, at what point is america no longer really america? what's the line between pushing for reform and revolt?

EDIT: ashli died a patriot. idk if she made the best choice of tactics, but she died a patriot.

 

[Catfishmoon]

this

i'm sure there's a lot of enemy soldiers that were good people too. The ashli shooting is a tough situation, and i don't know what the feds' orders were, but at some point the founding fathers made a decision where one day they were british and the next day they weren't.

Similarly, at what point is america no longer really america? what's the line between pushing for reform and revolt?

EDIT: ashli died a patriot. idk if she made the best choice of tactics, but she died a patriot.

Are you equating U.S. federal law enforcement officers with "enemy soldiers"?

 

[NW Backpacker]

I would say that Brian Sicknick, the Federal Law Enforcement Officer who was murdered in the line of duty, while opposing the rioters is a Patriot.

That's possible. I don't know anything about him.

 

[Catfishmoon]

That's possible. I don't know anything about him.

Just as I support any individual who volunteers for military service as a patriot, so I support law enforcement... Clearly, there are instances where soldiers/law enforcement have acted in the wrong, if that were to happen here, I would alter my comment... Until then, Brian Sicknick gets the benefit of the doubt that he acted appropriately.

 

[JedB]

When it comes time to review this shooting, I would almost guarantee it will come out there was a threshold and she crossed it. Fear of life means nothing when guarding a secured area. A breach is a breach.

The question will be whether the shooting was objectively reasonable. If there was knowledge of the location of the officers coming up the stairs, the shooter will have to explain why his actions were reasonable and necessary.

If he claims no knowledge, radio comms don't reflect any traffic announcing the presence of the other officers, and there was an established threshold, no charges or discipline will likely result.

Thank you for adding a well reasoned point to the discussion.

 

[No_Regerts]

Are you equating U.S. federal law enforcement officers with "enemy soldiers"?

I see his statement as more of an example of the dichotomy of "patriotism". How we view patriots is really the epitome of being a bandwagon fan. Whoever wins, is the patriot. The country repels rebellion vs patriots exercise their right to remove tyrannous government. The headline is chosen by the winner and the winner writes the history books.

 

[awshoot]

If we consider honestly those we most revere in our history and the circumstances of the birth of this nation, and chose as our point of view the then establishment, none of them were patriots, all of them were insurgents, and had they lost, they all would have hung as traitors. This is sort of the conundrum of American history -- that people can be both traitors and patriots.

What does patriot even mean? Is it adherence to principles or to borders? I'm not sure where to go with this line of thought from here, but a term like "patriot" gets thrown around a lot and at the foundational level, it's application relies almost entirely on which side holds power in sustained victory. From the establishment view, Ashli was an insurrectionist terrorist and the Capitol Police were patriots. From the anti-establishment view, Ashli was a patriot and the Capitol Police Redcoats. Given the establishment has not been overthrown, its view -- by virtue of power alone -- is correct.

In repressive regimes how are people who oppose repression viewed by those who are oppressed? Martyrs may be a better word.

 

[MxOverkill]

Different opinions are OK I guess. I figure if she is willing to fight those who have vowed to destroy the: Constitution, 2nd Amendment, Supreme Court, border security, and basically destroy the nation, then she is a Patriot.

Come back to reality...there were no "patriots" storming the capital and trying to overturn an election.
Insurrectionists, yes.

 

[awshoot]

Come back to reality...there were no "patriots" storming the capital and trying to overturn an election.
Insurrectionists, yes.

(English Accent) Come back to reality...there were no "patriots" storming the ships Dartmouth, Beaver, and Eleanor to overturn tea into the harbor. Insurrections, yes. (/English Accent)

EDIT: my point, same as above, is that the words patriot and insurrectionist are hard to disentangle in the context of American history

 

[Swiss_Cheeze]

From hero to traitor: Benedict Arnold's day of infamy | Constitution Center

On September 21, 1780, Revolutionary War hero Benedict Arnold turned his back on his country in a secret meeting with a top British official. So how did Arnold, with his patriot’s pedigree, become the most-hated man in America?

constitutioncenter.org

Come back to reality...there were no "patriots" storming the capital and trying to overturn an election.
Insurrectionists, yes.

What is reality now? Whatever big stream media decides you need to see and know as you sit in your easy chair at home and armchair quarterback through your political forums.

 

[Swiss_Cheeze]

Heavy police presence at the Del Amo Fashion Center in Torrance

A group of about 75 teens caused a disturbance at the Del Amo Fashion Center in Torrance on Saturday evening, officials said.

www.foxla.com

Insurrection? Rioting? Peaceful protest?
If adults can do it and make up names for it depending on their internet stance then why not kids.

 

[albin25]

Besides the general inhumanity, death and destruction, one of the big problems you get
with a civil war is ....
.... it's tends to be fought by people that consider themselves to be patriots fighting other people that consider themselves to be patriots.

- If it ends in a tie, it results in two independent sets of patriots.
- If only one side wins, that side gets to remain as patriots, the losers get to be misrepresented.

 

[SunTzu]

Are you equating U.S. federal law enforcement officers with "enemy soldiers"?

this is why ashli is a patriot...

What happens if biden keeps his word and makes all magazines over 10 rounds NFA items and they knock on your door? Respectfully welcome the atf patriots in and turn over your items sir.

 

[SUPER X]

I can't help but thinking some of the same things during the last 9 months when seeing what was ALLOWED to go on night after night, week after week and month after month, as I saw our Federal, State, City and county buildings vandalized, broken graffitied, and burned.

One thing I notice is that the DC thing right or wrong was directed at what they were angry at and not looted, In Potland countless businesses and innocent bystanders that had nothing to do with any of it . where trashed some people stopped on the street and attacked for wondering into the wrong place At wrong time. I would never have thought these things would happen in the usa. I remember the protest in the late 60,s early 70s .unless Im forgetting something this mess looks to be much worse.

 

[The Resister]

Honestly, what is left to say about the obvious?


We have just crossed the DMZ line of dialogue failure. The republic is dead, it's just that not many realize it yet.

So, it is time that we officially acknowledged the obvious and then decide whether we accept Socialism or plan our way out of it. We don't have a Declaration of Independence and NO Constitution. Do we have the faith, courage, and patience - not to mention the cahones to start over?

 

[The Resister]

this is why ashli is a patriot...

What happens if biden keeps his word and makes all magazines over 10 rounds NFA items and they knock on your door? Respectfully welcome the atf patriots in and turn over your items sir.

Patriots would never comply with a law that infringes on a guaranteed Right. Biden is going to have to tell you - there is no Constitution.