Why no modern(ish) guns or conversions to 7.62㎜ Tokarev?

[CountryGent]

The idea of something new / good in 7.62㎜ Tokarev has been kicked around from time to time. As far as I know, no manufacturer currently makes such a pistol, nor, again AFAIK, a conversion barrel/kit. The story I've read on the intratubes is the standards, quality control, etc. of ComBloc loaded Tokarev ammunition is all over the board and no manufacturer wants to touch that liability with a ten foot pole. I do, vaguely, recall some Sterling-esque carbines and pistols made in said during the mid-2000s (neato in some ways) and there was at least one manufacturer who made conversion cylinders for Nagant revolvers (I wouldn't shoot one under almost any conditions).

So what say you; does the interwebz story hold up or not? Would you like to see something modern (e.g., a Glock, CZ-75, et al.) in said or "meh"? (Granted, the milsurp ammo supply of this ammo isn't anything like it was back in the day, but it is still an interesting cartridge.)

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[bionic knees]

they are all busy in Ukraine!

 

[Will_White]

The idea of something new / good in 7.62㎜ Tokarev has been kicked around from time to time. As far as I know, no manufacturer currently makes such a pistol, nor, again AFAIK, a conversion barrel/kit. The story I've read on the intratubes is the standards, quality control, etc. of ComBloc loaded Tokarev ammunition is all over the board and no manufacturer wants to touch that liability with a ten foot pole. I do, vaguely, recall some Sterling-esque carbines and pistols made in said during the mid-2000s (neato in some ways) and there was at least one manufacturer who made conversion cylinders for Nagant revolvers (I wouldn't shoot one under almost any conditions).

So what say you; does the interwebz story hold up or not? Would you like to see something modern (e.g., a Glock, CZ-75, et al.) in said or "meh"? (Granted, the milsurp ammo supply of this ammo isn't anything like it was back in the day, but it is still an interesting cartridge.)

It's my understanding that while close, it doesn't fit in 45acp/10mm magazine wells so pistol conversions are hard.

 

[CountryGent]

It's my understanding that while close, it doesn't fit in 45acp/10mm magazine wells so pistol conversions are hard.

Ah, good point. The OAL would be just a tad longer than many magazine envelopes could hold.

 

[raftman]

I guess to me the question isn't why is there not such a thing, but should there be?

I think it's something analogous to 7mm Mauser. It's not that it's a bad a cartridge or anything, but is there much of any demand for new production firearms in it?

 

[trevi]

The idea of something new / good in 7.62㎜ Tokarev has been kicked around from time to time. As far as I know, no manufacturer currently makes such a pistol, nor, again AFAIK, a conversion barrel/kit. The story I've read on the intratubes is the standards, quality control, etc. of ComBloc loaded Tokarev ammunition is all over the board and no manufacturer wants to touch that liability with a ten foot pole. I do, vaguely, recall some Sterling-esque carbines and pistols made in said during the mid-2000s (neato in some ways) and there was at least one manufacturer who made conversion cylinders for Nagant revolvers (I wouldn't shoot one under almost any conditions).

So what say you; does the interwebz story hold up or not? Would you like to see something modern (e.g., a Glock, CZ-75, et al.) in said or "meh"? (Granted, the milsurp ammo supply of this ammo isn't anything like it was back in the day, but it is still an interesting cartridge.)

I love the idea so much i almost wanted to replace the 357 SIG to this with a 1911 build..... But a conversion would be better.

 

[Will_White]

I guess to me the question isn't why is there not such a thing, but should there be?

I think it's something analogous to 7mm Mauser. It's not that it's a bad a cartridge or anything, but is there much of any demand for new production firearms in it?

It's a great cartridge that defeats soft body armor, I've had a cz52 on my want list for a while. I think it's a chicken or egg problem nobody makes guns in it because nobody wants it but nobody wants it because nobody makes new guns in it.

 

[po18guy]

Rename it the .30 Creedmore and people will line up to buy it.

 

[papersoldier]

I've always wanted modern PCC chambered in this. I'm also hoping for one to come out in .30 Super Carry, just so I can use my .30 cal cans on a PCC

 

[Knobgoblin]

Pcc is the right answer, and mags can't possibly be that big of a hindrance.
I don't understand why more bottleneck handgun cartridges don't prosper. Cracked necks on the empties making reloading less consistent is valid, but not every casing is a 1 and done. What other realistic limitations does the bottleneck pistol round have? Because the benefits of easy and reliable feeding are obvious.

 

[po18guy]

Honestly, it shows no advantage over the .30 Carbine - since neither fits in most handgun magazines. The Czech CZ-52 is a super-strong 7.62 pistol, with a delayed roller locked action, but rather combersome and ungainly for an 8-rounder. Much stronger than the TT33 pistols.

 

[raftman]

Honestly, it shows no advantage over the .30 Carbine - since neither fits in most handgun magazines. The Czech CZ-52 is a super-strong 7.62 pistol, with a delayed roller locked action, but rather combersome and ungainly for an 8-rounder. Much stronger than the TT33 pistols.

From what I'd heard, the strength of the CZ-52 is sort of a myth. It's certainly more prone to parts breakages.

 

[po18guy]

Which parts? It is a big, heavy, clunky and horribly un-ergonomic pistol. But fragile? First I've heard - but I have not heard a lot about them.

 

[raftman]

Firing pins are brittle, for example. It's why they make improved aftermarket replacements. Safeties are prone to failure, as well. Rollers are prone to wearing out, which is something else for which they make improved aftermarket replacements.

 

[po18guy]

Is the caliber bad, too? Am beginning to wonder.

 

[RX-79G]

with a delayed roller locked action

It's not a delayed action. It's recoil operated, with rollers doing what the locking block in a Beretta does.

 

[Dozer99]

I've owned/own quite a few CZ-52's over the years. Only had one firing pin break. Thousands upon Thousands of rounds and I've yet to wear one out. They are a bit large, but they were developed as a military sidearm.

Some of the old Czech and Bulgarian ammo can be hard to set off (very hard primer cups) needing a double or triple strike. Modern ammo from S&B and PPU are both reliable and clean burning.

I believe that Norinco made the Tokarev 213 back in the 90's in both 7.62x25mm as well as 9x19. Not a big seller and the line was dropped after a few years.

If anyone has the Norinco 7.62x25 for sale let me know. I missed out do to prior commitments by Uncle Sam.

Edit: It's one of the best back country bear guns out there. A thick bear skull is no match for the 7.62x25mm and the fat layer just makes if tumble more.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

The idea of something new / good in 7.62㎜ Tokarev has been kicked around from time to time. As far as I know, no manufacturer currently makes such a pistol, nor, again AFAIK, a conversion barrel/kit. The story I've read on the intratubes is the standards, quality control, etc. of ComBloc loaded Tokarev ammunition is all over the board and no manufacturer wants to touch that liability with a ten foot pole. I do, vaguely, recall some Sterling-esque carbines and pistols made in said during the mid-2000s (neato in some ways) and there was at least one manufacturer who made conversion cylinders for Nagant revolvers (I wouldn't shoot one under almost any conditions).

So what say you; does the interwebz story hold up or not? Would you like to see something modern (e.g., a Glock, CZ-75, et al.) in said or "meh"? (Granted, the milsurp ammo supply of this ammo isn't anything like it was back in the day, but it is still an interesting cartridge.)

Not new but the pps in this caliber is inexpensive. I think the stocks are tack welded so they can't be deployed.

 

[spookshack]

That mag would make a good basis for an AR PCC conversion. Hmmm

 

[ilikegunspdx]

That mag would make a good basis for an AR PCC conversion. Hmmm

FYI U can get pps-43c parts kits for $120ish which includes 3 mags and a folding stock.

A person could Form 1 a pps-43c and add parts kit to get legal pps-43c with folding stock for cheap. 9mm versions available also.

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