Why Muzzleloading...?

[Andy54Hawken]

Many folks have asked me : "Why mess with those old guns...?"
Well I hope the following pictures and text can help with that.

Muzzleloaders come in many different versions.
If you look closely at the this photo...two basic differences are ignition.
We have both flint and percussion locks here.
Also note the different styling...full stock , half stock , rifled and smooth bore.
Speaking of styling...
You can have the trim and graceful lines of a "Kentucky Rifle"...either plain or fancy with carving and inlays...or the robustness and romance associated with a "Hawken Rifle".
Calibers can also vary from the small .32 caliber suitable for small game and varmints to .75 caliber Muskets...

Details of a Flintlock ( top ) and a Percussion ( bottom )


Lock works of Flintlock

Lock works of a Percussion lock





As you can see from the above three photos...
Patchboxes and Cap boxes can vary as well.
Just what is a patchbox..?
A patchbox is used to keep your shooting or cleaning patches in...maybe a flint or two , a cleaning jag tip , or in the case of a percussion gun caps...Hence a capbox.

For me just the almost endless varieties of firearms , and their details can make for a most interesting collection.
And they can shoot as well.
I have taken grouse , deer , bear and elk with my muzzleloaders.
Many matches are shot each year at ranges up to 200 yards ...all with a iron sighted rifle.
Anything from splitting a playing card edgewise , hitting a gong , or getting those really tight shot groups , we all like , can be done with a muzzleloading rifle.

You also do not need much in the way "fixin's " to shoot a muzzleloader.
Here is my bag and all the gear needed to shoot my Flintlock Fowler with round ball.


Being the history nerd that I am...
Shooting a rifle or gun that Daniel Boone or Kit Carson would like and understand has a lot of appeal for me.
When shooting a Musket , I can get a better understanding of just what those boys did at Lexington and Concord or Bull Run for that matter....

Sorry for the long ramble...hope it wasn't too boring.
Andy

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[Connor Murphy]

Nice overview of the genre Andy. My boy has been bugging for awhile to get into muzzleloading with the aim of being proficient enough to hunt with one. He will enjoy your post.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Nice overview of the genre Andy. My boy has been bugging for awhile to get into muzzleloading with the aim of being proficient enough to hunt with one. He will enjoy your post.

Thanks Conner...
Being proficient enough to hunt ...is just a matter of finding the right load for your gun and lots of practice with it.
I shoot my "big three" all year long ...at club shooting matches , various rendezvous or just when out "plinking".
My main three hunting arms:

.54 Hawken Rifle Copy

.38 Caliber Royland Southgate Longrifle

Antique 20 gauge Flintlock Fowler
Andy

 

[Connor Murphy]

Impressive Andy. That Hawken would take "plinking" to a whole 'nother level.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Impressive Andy. That Hawken would take "plinking" to a whole 'nother level.

It does...
It makes a nice "ping" on a gong...or impressive puff of dirt when hitting that stray bit of leftover clay bird.
Not a lot of recoil with my standard load of 80 grains...by standard , I mean what load I use for just about all of my shooting both target and hunting.

To my mind its like using a .22 , but for every type of shooting.
Andy

 

[Andy54Hawken]

To explain my "To my mind its like using a .22 , but for every type of shooting comment..."
The simple iron open sights are very similar to what many of used when learning to shoot.
Also using "Kentucky windage and elevation" is the same idea...
Once mastered ...its easy to do and with enough practice becomes second nature.






Sights are low...the rear sights are usually of the flat top with a "V" or "U" notch or of the "Buckhorn" type.
Front sights can be iron , sliver , bone or even ivory...again low.
Sight placement is often changed as seen by a new dovetail cut in a old barrel.
To accommodate "older eyes" a rear sight was often moved closer to the breech or the notch filed out to make it larger and easier to see....
Again with practice , accurate shots can be made with such sights...using the hold over or hold under method
Andy

 

[albin25]

....and a whole lot purdier than an MSR.

But, there's nowhere for rails to mount the flashlight, angled foregrip, red dot, and can opener?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

....and a whole lot purdier than an MSR.

But, there's nowhere for rails to mount the flashlight, angled foregrip, red dot, and can opener?

I suppose you could put all of those items on a muzzleloading rifle / gun...
Just none of mine....
Andy

 

[Ura-Ki]

I always drool over your photos Andy, Those are some mighty fine Front stuffers you gots there!
I too love Black Powder arms and accessories, its fun for me, relaxing, and therapeutic! I especially love the history and the idea of at least shooting as good as my forefathers using the same arms! I love the whole experience, the process, and the slower pace! I love the trip through history every time I fondle one of my B.P. arms, and even better to take a few shots at the old fence post a few hundred yards yonder, or harvesting game in the field! I love them so much that I choose them for rifle season just so I can use them with out the pesky caliber restrictions imposed on Muzzle loaders during the B.P. seasons! I'm working on my state to remove those restrictions, but it's prolly not gonna happen!

 

[Ura-Ki]

Not precisely a "Muzzle Loader" but still a super slick fire arm from days gone by, but still a very powerful, very accurate, and very reliable rifle! Even all these years later, this rifle shoots lights out, and is almost the equal of .45/70 with out those pesky metallic cartridges!

 

[etrain16]

They are fun. That's the big reason for me. And I like the historical ties of these guns. Knowing you're shooting something very much like what our founders would have hunted with? What they would have fought with? It's a cool tie to our past as Americans.

I also like that they make you slow down a bit, think about your shot, think about changes to the loading. I don't hunt, so I don't practice for such things, but I do like to be somewhat accurate. And for those that are recoil sensitive, it's great to be able to load down, if needed. But as Andy said, even loaded up a bit, they are still soft shooters. My .50 cal Hawken copy is pleasant to shoot regardless of the powder charge I've used. My .45 cal revolver, equally as pleasant to shoot.

And they really are some of the prettiest guns out there.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

@Ura-Ki ,
That is one sweet Colt....you almost never see those....I would love to check it out one day....

@etrain16 ,
Yeah there are pretty to look at...knowing the skills that came together in the making of a longrifle.
Wood working , blacksmithing , carviing and or engraving etc...
Recoil is also a factor ....like you mentioned , even with a "stout" load they are easy to shoot and manage.
Andy

 

[rcnpthfndr]

everyone can appreciate the craftsmanship and skill that went into them. plus they are fun to shoot.

that old video "Colonial gunsmith" shows what went into them.

on a side note Andy, I brought a Jazeel back from AFG I would like you to look at one year.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

@rcnpthfndr
Wallace Gusler sure knows his stuff ...that is a cool video , thanks for sharing.
I'd like to see your Jazeel sometime for sure.
Andy

 

[edslhead]

Then there is the modern muzzle loader. Not much to look at but it will get you out huntin a week or so before the center fires. With the legalized 209's ( in WA ) they should be pretty reliable in the rain now. I'd be curios how reliable those flints are in the rain?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I'd be curios how reliable those flints are in the rain?

A well made flint lock is reliable in the rain.
Yes you do need to keep the frizzen and pan covered...either by your hand or a leather cover known as a "cow's knee".
And yeah at times your priming will get damp or moist....
So you will have to "dump your priming" and re-prime at times...

But again all that said a well made , timed , tuned and positioned flintlock , with a sharp flint , is reliable in any weather.
The biggest reason the percussion caught on , is that , even in the day , they were and are less expensive to make , takes less time to make and less skill to install in a gun.

Do you have a "bigger learning curve" , by using and figuring out just how your lock works the best...yep , no argument there...is it more of a task to learn or take some skill to use...yep again.

But flintlocks have been in continuous use for centuries... I can't think of any other gun that can make that claim.
They have never really died out.
I have seen Flintlock trade guns dated into the 1880's and my Flintlock fowler dates to around 1900...well into the cartridge gun era.

Check out the RE Davis Company web site ...for some excellent videos on lock times and speeds....
Andy

 

[edslhead]

That interesting. I have friends who wouldn't hunt with the cap primers because they thought caps wouldn't perform in the rain. I guess those guys are all wet Thats probably over my head trying to fine tune an ol school Flintlock but they do look like fun!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

That interesting. I have friends who wouldn't hunt with the cap primers because they thought caps wouldn't perform in the rain.

Caps often won't work if ...
You don't "bust a cap or three " before loading your rifle.
If you bust a cap it will blow out any oil or leftover debris from the last cleaning and clear the ignition vent to the main charge.
Do this only with a un-loaded gun...or the result will be very different....
Andy

 

[Ura-Ki]

My favorite era was the in between where the percussion system was really hitting it's stride, but the self contained cartridges were just starting to show some promise. I love arms from that time frame, to me it really shows the gun makers skills and creativity, especially in solving complex ( at the time) issues that were showing up as the performance improved and more and more people wanted/needed firearms! I especially love the early works of Sam Colt, Remington, Winchester, and Smith&Wesson, as well as the smaller concerns like Springfield, Spencer, Henry, And Lemate! I see so many innovations born out of necessity and many of those ideas are with us to this day even in our modern arms!
Look at Colt for instance, he had a timed spindle instead of the more complicated cylinder timing that the S&W folks figured out, both worked really well, but which design do we see today, yup, S&W! It really came down to Colt figuring out how to mass produce it with his build standards of perfection that has cemented that design in history!

 

[titsonritz]

Then there is the modern muzzle loader. Not much to look at but it will get you out huntin a week or so before the center fires. With the legalized 209's ( in WA ) they should be pretty reliable in the rain now. I'd be curios how reliable those flints are in the rain?

View attachment 481930

That's what mine looks like.

Flintlocks are ok in the rain, it's the matchlocks that present problems.