Why doubling-up hearing pro only gains you ~5dB

Discussion in 'Gear & Accessories' started by Vorpalis, Feb 9, 2017.

  1. gryghin

    gryghin
    Beaverton
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    318
    Likes Received:
    241
    Every once in a while the Surefire Sonic Defenders go on sale a Walmart. That's where I bought them for the whole family.

    When I went to Clackamas County Public Safety Center last week, they said that ear muff style ear pro had to be worn because of the bone conduction of sound is more amplified indoors in a closed environment.
     
  2. Camelfilter

    Camelfilter
    Salem
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    2,731
    Likes Received:
    5,736
    We like those surefires, but also double them up with electronic muffs for both music and command/conversation.
     
    SKrueger likes this.
  3. SnapShot

    SnapShot
    Vancouver
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    72
    that is not entirely correct. Yes is it a logarithmic equation, you would be correct if you said a 3db change is either twice or half of the required power output to a speaker (it takes from say an amplifier) but the perceived loudness of a 3db change is minor - basicily the a 3db change is only just just barley noticeable - one might say turn it up a little --- and when you notice the change in perceived loudness thats about 3db.

    in the case of increasing dB

    dB change of 3 = 1.4x Volts = Power output (amplifier) 2x = perceived loudness 1.23x

    to actually double perceived loudness it would be 10dB (again its a logarithm)
    so in the case of 35db protection against 25 dB -- 35 will be 2x as much protection

    here is a more detailed description of dB / voltage / loudness
    THE RELATIONSHIP OF VOLTAGE, LOUDNESS, POWER AND DECIBELS | Galen Carol Audio | Galen Carol Audio


    i am not a bonafied auditory doctor, but i do have almost 20 years experience as a live sound engineer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2017
    41mag and Vorpalis like this.
  4. Pops1911

    Pops1911
    Kent
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    762
    Likes Received:
    1,585
    What a timely thread resurrection. I just bought some new 25 rated ear mupps and some 33 rated ear plugs. I figure I couldn't hear a dynamite explosion in a nitroglycerin factory now! Whoo hoo! Break out those 50cal Desert Iggles maw!
     
  5. Belial

    Belial
    Vancouver, WA
    Active Member

    Messages:
    142
    Likes Received:
    65
    Armalite used to send ear plugs in a holder, two Tylenol, and directions to double up with their AR-50's. Doubling up ear protection makes a huge difference when bigger controlled explosions send lead down range for this guy...
     
  6. P7id10T

    P7id10T
    West Slope
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    2,219
    Likes Received:
    3,993
    Great thread, @Vorpalis - thanks for posting, though I didn't hear a word you said.
     
    Vorpalis and SKrueger like this.
  7. SKrueger

    SKrueger
    SW Washington
    Platinum Supporter Platinum Supporter 2017 Volunteer

    Messages:
    3,835
    Likes Received:
    14,521
    Good thing this site is visual and not audio we all would be hosed! :D
     
    P7id10T likes this.
  8. P7id10T

    P7id10T
    West Slope
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    2,219
    Likes Received:
    3,993
    Reading and writing with the constant high frequency whistle of tinnitus. If only the notes varied.
     
    SKrueger likes this.
  9. Vorpalis

    Vorpalis
    Portland, OR
    Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    256
    Thanks for the info! This is so cool getting to learn from others' experience!

    I would think the wattage sent to a speaker would correlate linearly with the energy of a sound wave – is that true? How does our ears' perception of loudness correlate to the actual energy of a sound wave?
     
  10. Mygrainman

    Mygrainman
    SW WA
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    920
    Likes Received:
    2,945
    I find it interesting the way sound waves travel... lower frequencies go slower and farther, and high frequencies faster but shorter... the lows taking a little distance to fully develop etc... I'm a musician, and had a heck of a bass guitar rig... It had 800 watts 4 10" and 2 15" speakers, and I had to crank it to be heard in the same room as a 100watt guitar amp. BUT... the neighbor 1/4 mile away through the woods could hear only my bass amp, as it rattled the windows in his house.
    And with my muzzle brake, if you are directly behind the rifle, it's not bad at all, but for the guy next to me at the range it's LOUD! and it sends of a concussive effect you can feel in your soul.

    I double up at the range, not so much for the added protection, but because it helps shut me out and concentrate on my shot... Especially if the guy next to me also has a muzzle brake. I'm still lucky to get sub hour of angle though...:D

    Hearing loss runs in my family, and knock on wood, at 40 I still have excellent hearing... Its a miracle that I do considering all I put my poor ears trough... Two years behind a cannon of a snare drum in HS drum line, and 25 years off and on, playing bass or drums in different bands, and going to rock concerts. and of course 19 years of marriage. only recently have I started using ear pro, but I can still hear her through both layerso_O
     
  11. SnapShot

    SnapShot
    Vancouver
    Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    185
    Likes Received:
    72
    i would say yes higher wattage applied to say a speaker- will make that speaker produce a sound wave that has more energy.... now specifically - what kind of energy do you want to measure. they go about it in slightly different ways.

    now how our ears measure it, - easy answer-- differences in pressures

    harder answer: that about taps me out.

    Amplitude is measured in the amount of force applied over an area. which is measured in Newtons per square meter (N/m2). (if you think of what a wave from looks like - the amplitude is the measurement between the very top of the wave and the very bottom)

    WATT - the easiest way i can describe a Watt is that its a measurement of energy over time . 1 watt = 1 Newton of work per second


    then there is the dB Decibel which is a measurement of intensity, "the power of the original sound source along with distance of measurement from the sound source combine to form the intensity"


    heres where stuff gets converted around like a math formula. if you want the equation ill give you a link, but that stuff is beyond my caring.

    now while a doubling of power way wattage is +3dB, but the doubling of AMPlitude is +6dB

    science of what happens in the ear,, some of it is pretty complicated, but if your into that stuff.

    https://courses.physics.illinois.ed...Notes/P406POM_Lecture_Notes/P406POM_Lect5.pdf


    pretty good explanation - where i sourced some info from

    What is amplitude?
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017

Share This Page