Why are Hollow points so expensive.

[aasbra]

Thats interesting, so what is the point of IDPA etc. target shooting with hollowpoints if they arent recommended for self defense?

I've heard some cases where competitive shooters noted better accuracy with the JHP (Precision Delta or Montana Gold) than FMJ or coated lead bullets, and thus for a fairly nominal additional cost for those handloading, and wanting every competitive edge, would go that route.

And there are handgun JHP projectiles for target shooting applications, such as I noted, which are not marketed for self defense type loads, and those JHP projectiles which are. I haven't seen any gel tests or such to see the differences in expansion.

If looking for less expensive JHP projectiles for target shooting, check out Precision Delta, Rocky Mountain Reloading, or Montana Gold.

 

[Jay Walk]

Here are pic's of the 357sig Montana Gold JHP's I just reloaded.
View attachment 1408578

Brass cases won't kill vampires.

 

[oremike]

There are 2 types of HP's being discussed here and they are not the same. The first has the hole made in the casting process and then plated generally they are made to externally be the same shape and weight as a self-defense HP but cheaper to manufacture and there for market. Self defense HP's have the hole opened up to expose the lead core and flutes cut into the bullet to aid in expansion. The work costs more as it should. Hornady explains this here:

HAP® (Hornady Action Pistol) - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Modeled after the legendary XTP^® bullet design, HAP^® (Hornady Action Pistol) bullets are further refined into the perfect competition projectile.

www.hornady.com

XTP® (eXtreme Terminal Performance) - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Designed for hunting, self-defense and law enforcement applications, the XTP^® bullet demonstrates the kind of accuracy which led many competitive shooters to adopt it.

www.hornady.com

It is unfortunate that some people don't understand the difference and think any bullet with a hole in the end is a a lung blower outer self defense bullet.

 

[Certaindeaf]

I've heard some cases where competitive shooters noted better accuracy with the JHP (Precision Delta or Montana Gold) than FMJ or coated lead bullets, and thus for a fairly nominal additional cost for those handloading, and wanting every competitive edge, would go that route.

And there are handgun JHP projectiles for target shooting applications, such as I noted, which are not marketed for self defense type loads, and those JHP projectiles which are. I haven't seen any gel tests or such to see the differences in expansion.

If looking for less expensive JHP projectiles for target shooting, check out Precision Delta, Rocky Mountain Reloading, or Montana Gold.

Bullet bases are key for accuracy. It's easier to make a JHP bullet with a perfect base than it is a FMJ. Look at the base of them both and you'll see why.

 

[The Heretic]

1) Economy of scale - more FMJ/TMJ/etc.

2) R&D cost - FMJs require almost no R&D, if any - their design is static - no improvement is necessary. JHP/JSP/etc. - require constant R&D to stay ahead of the curve caused by competition and marketing (next best thing). A lot of testing of a design goes into these.

3) More manufacturing operations - FMJs/et. al. are simple to manufacture and the tooling doesn't change. JHPs/etc., require more steps; the jacket formed often with skives (inside and outside), lead swaged into the jacket and a hole pressed into the lead, for bullets like the Win SXT the nose of the jacket is then bent over the lead. There is sometimes inner forming of the JHP hole - e.g., Fed Hydra-Shock. Then there are those bullets that have a insert - e.g. Hornady. "Bonding" of the lead to the jacket for some premium bullets. And so on. Then there is the loading of the round - maybe a bit more dev goes into loading a JHP into a case than a FMJ?

Now granted - some of these operations are done in one or two operations of a press/machine - but the R&D of the tooling, the Q&A, etc., all costs more because the projectile is more complex. Q&A is more important for defensive ammo - if FMJ malfunctions, so what? Good practice drills for malfunctions. If defensive ammo FTF/FTE, the brand ammo gets a bad rep and people stop buying it, for years, if not decades.

Then there is the marketing/advertising, including the fancy boxes the ammo goes into.

It all adds up.

Finally, there is what the market will bear. Besides scale, people will pay more for "premium" defensive ammo than they will for practice FMJ ammo.

Yes, I will and do pay 2X for good defensive ammo, but in general I won't pay 3-6X or more; FMJ 9mm is 22CPR, and some sellers are trying to get $1-$2 per round for defensive ammo. In general I don't pay more than 50-60CPR for defensive ammo, especially since I have plenty of the chamberings I have guns for (with a few exceptions where I have at least the "minimum"). The prices are coming down and I keep my eyes open for good deals - I just got some gov overrun 5.56 SP ammo (60CPR).

 

[Xmark1]

Brass cases won't kill vampires.

True, I use these cases when in vampire country.

 

[PiratePast40]

However they do it this is cheaper than most FMJ even if we include shipping.

LAX Ammunition 9mm Luger 147 gr Hollow Point (HP) New 500 ct w/ FREE Ammo Can (Free Shipping! Orders $249-$2000)

500 Rounds of LAX Ammunition 9mm Luger 147 gr Hollow Point (HP) New. Includes FREE ammo can! *Product images are for illustrative purposes only and may differ from the actual product

www.laxammo.com

I've loaded thousands of those in 24 grain 9mm. They're from X-treme Bullets. They're great for practice, USPSA, and steel challenge. They're not meant to expand but I sure wouldn't want to get shot by one.

 

[titsonritz]

I'd imaging there is more R&D into hollow-points to make them better at doing their job and would be more costly to manufacture and like all products that cost is passed onto the consumer.

 

[The Heretic]

I've loaded thousands of those in 24 124 grain 9mm.

FIFY?

 

[Xmark1]

I've loaded thousands of those in 24 grain 9mm. They're from X-treme Bullets. They're great for practice, USPSA, and steel challenge. They're not meant to expand but I sure wouldn't want to get shot by one.

I use Xtreme sometimes. I still have a few thousand on the shelf. They work just fine.

 

[Xmark1]

There are 2 types of HP's being discussed here and they are not the same. The first has the hole made in the casting process and then plated generally they are made to externally be the same shape and weight as a self-defense HP but cheaper to manufacture and there for market. Self defense HP's have the hole opened up to expose the lead core and flutes cut into the bullet to aid in expansion. The work costs more as it should. Hornady explains this here:

HAP® (Hornady Action Pistol) - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Modeled after the legendary XTP^® bullet design, HAP^® (Hornady Action Pistol) bullets are further refined into the perfect competition projectile.

www.hornady.com

XTP® (eXtreme Terminal Performance) - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

Designed for hunting, self-defense and law enforcement applications, the XTP^® bullet demonstrates the kind of accuracy which led many competitive shooters to adopt it.

www.hornady.com

It is unfortunate that some people don't understand the difference and think any bullet with a hole in the end is a a lung blower outer self defense bullet.

As far as defense goes, I always EDC quality factory ammo. JHP's like Underwood, sig, Sierra, etc.
My reloads are for target only.
Being involved in a shooting is headache enough. I don't want to have to also defend myself because I used a hand load.

 

[PiratePast40]

FIFY?

LOL. Yes.

 

[oremike]

As far as defense goes, I always EDC quality factory ammo. JHP's like Underwood, sig, Sierra, etc.
My reloads are for target only.
Being involved in a shooting is headache enough. I don't want to have to also defend myself because I used a hand load.

I'm an ammo factory and try to make nothing but quality ammo so I guess than means I can defend myself with my ammo.

 

[Nosferatu]

Brass cases won't kill vampires.

Damn skippy!

Just keep that silver crap to yourself!

 

[Nosferatu]

True, I use these cases when in vampire country.
View attachment 1408779

Luckily those are covered in that inferior wannabe the mortals call nickel. They have zero effect on us.

 

[2ndtimer]

These seem pretty decent, especially for the price.

9mm 124 Gr. RMR JHP (MPR NUKE) | RMR Bullets

We have been wanting to make a really good self defense HP for a while now. In the past our biggest issue with the MPR (Multi Purpose Round) was that it required 1150-1200 fps to reliably expand. This was doable through full size firearms, but left the short barrel conceal carry guns without...

www.rmrbullets.com

I haven't shot anything with them yet, but they are reported to give good expansion at 1100 fps or so.

 

[hongkong2]

How well do they expand?

From the ad: This bullet is not however ideal for home defense or law enforcement purposes.

 

[Xmark1]

Luckily those are covered in that inferior wannabe the mortals call nickel. They have zero effect on us.

You just gotta ask yourself, they Nickel or silver?
Do ya feel lucky? Well do ya?

 

[DunRanull]

I have noticed that ammo prices have come down a lot. In the last few months, I have bought cases of 9mm FMJ for as little as $229 shipped.

What I question is why hollow point ammo prices are sometimes two or three times as expensive as FMJ.

With the cost of components having been so high, I have been purchasing cases of 9mm for less than the cost to load it myself. And let us not forget I avoid the 17,000 steps I have to use to reload 1,000 rounds.

Hollow point projectiles cost the same as FMJ, so I can reload at significant savings over factory loads.

And for lesser popular calibers like the 357sig, factory hollow point bullets average about $1.60 CPR. I love my 357sig and I reload hollow points for about 23 CPR, less if I'm not using new brass.
I love my 357sig (G32) because it's identical in size to my G19. I push a125gr projectile at close to 1,500fps. This beats the heck out of using my G20 (10mm) for EDC.

All it takes to make a HP from a FMJ is a wee careful touch (not too deep!) with a drill press and a proper size bit.

 

[The Heretic]

All it takes to make a HP from a FMJ is a wee careful touch (not too deep!) with a drill press and a proper size bit.

It is more than that - the jackets are different thickness and designs

Give it a try sometime with expansion media