Member 3687
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Yes this does and has crossed my mind more than once and like I said if I can help I will but if it puts my folks in danger I am sorry.
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When ‘the big one’ hits should ants help grasshoppers?
- Thread Starter ATCclears
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Yes this does and has crossed my mind more than once and like I said if I can help I will but if it puts my folks in danger I am sorry.
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Those grasshopper types will turn into vicious animals when they start to get hungry. You had best be prepared to squash each and every one of them that discover you and your food-stores. Because as their hunger grows, they'll remember you and what you've got.
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Gypsies. Mary and I way back in 1981 were taking a year off and slowing touring the Nation. While camping at a State Campground somewhere in Arkansas, (very nice campground) all of us there were "hit" by a band of what would be called Gypsies.
About 30 of them. It reminded me of Oliver Twist the book and movie. The Crook King. The Crook Lieutenants. So on. Most of the pack were kids aged between about 5 and 12. Nasty brat criminal types. They swarmed the campground. Sticky fingers.
It was like a rehearsed stage play. Every kid had their part. Expert training. Me and Mary had to throw everything inside the fifth wheel. She stayed in the trailer, I stayed in the pickup. They were stealing anything and everything. Very fast. Very slick.
In and out in less than 5 minutes. Never did find out who they were and how they got to Arkansas. Might have been Tennessee also. What sticks in my mind today years later is how professional they were. Just kids stealing everything not bolted down.
About 30 of them. It reminded me of Oliver Twist the book and movie. The Crook King. The Crook Lieutenants. So on. Most of the pack were kids aged between about 5 and 12. Nasty brat criminal types. They swarmed the campground. Sticky fingers.
It was like a rehearsed stage play. Every kid had their part. Expert training. Me and Mary had to throw everything inside the fifth wheel. She stayed in the trailer, I stayed in the pickup. They were stealing anything and everything. Very fast. Very slick.
In and out in less than 5 minutes. Never did find out who they were and how they got to Arkansas. Might have been Tennessee also. What sticks in my mind today years later is how professional they were. Just kids stealing everything not bolted down.
Member 34319
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I made the mistake of helping my neighbor with some yard work once...
Learned a lot from that one alone.
Learned a lot from that one alone.
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Situational awareness will matter.
Today I'm in Seattle, near City Airport, a few miles south of Safeco Field.
I'm parked on a sketchy neighborhood street, checking my GPS, and a woman is walking toward my car. From 100', everything appears normal. When she gets within ~40', her face contorts and i hear her make sobbing sounds. It looked and sounded very convincing, but there were no tears. I wasn't going to wait and see if she approached. I started the van and got out of there.
In Detroit, in the '80s, one of the ruses the local vermin would use was a bleeding old lady. She would flag you down in distress, and if you stopped, her cohorts would pounce on you
Today I'm in Seattle, near City Airport, a few miles south of Safeco Field.
I'm parked on a sketchy neighborhood street, checking my GPS, and a woman is walking toward my car. From 100', everything appears normal. When she gets within ~40', her face contorts and i hear her make sobbing sounds. It looked and sounded very convincing, but there were no tears. I wasn't going to wait and see if she approached. I started the van and got out of there.
In Detroit, in the '80s, one of the ruses the local vermin would use was a bleeding old lady. She would flag you down in distress, and if you stopped, her cohorts would pounce on you
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Here's what the ants will be doing to the grasshopper! 
The problem there is you may never know when they turn until its lights out with one to the back of the head.
Never underestimate what a starving person will do.
I always imagine what I would do if a man and a kid show up, hungry during a SHTF. My heart says to help them, but my brain thinks to never, ever trust a stranger.
Here's what the ants will be doing to the grasshopper!
Yup, when the big one hits you should immediately shoot as many grasshoppers as you can and put them in cold storage for later needs.
The time to be friendly is before the big one hits. Then if you get screwed it's just a minor loss. If you don't, that's a neighbor worth working with.
After the earthquake, nope. Most people are believers in the Government Religion, and have no conception of voluntarism and mutual aid. They just assume they will be taken care of. I will send all that type to the nearest government shelter. If they push me, they will end up dead (I'm assuming a large death toll anyway, so a few extra won't be noticed).
After the earthquake, nope. Most people are believers in the Government Religion, and have no conception of voluntarism and mutual aid. They just assume they will be taken care of. I will send all that type to the nearest government shelter. If they push me, they will end up dead (I'm assuming a large death toll anyway, so a few extra won't be noticed).
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It really depends upon the event and other factors.
For a short term disruption, yes, with few exceptions, we will render aid to others. Within reason and as long as it does not significantly impact safety. It is just being neighborly, really.
For a TEOTWAWKI event, like say an atomic exchange or EMP strike, all bets are off. The welfare of my wife and children come first. And I think any person, if they are honest, would make their household the first priority. That would be a tough thing to have to do amid a situation involving a lot of tough decisions.
The middle point SHTF events are a bit trickier. A Cascadia Rising event would be much longer for essential services to be restored. While the region and nation would eventually recover, it could be weeks or months before things even begin to resemble normalcy. In this scenario, I'm thinking we have to err on the side of "sorry you didn't prepare, but we don't know when resupply is going to happen ..." Lets face it, those would be some long months to live through, particularly if it went down in the winter.
And, to be candid, who is asking for help is going to play some roll. A stranded mother with a small child or an elderly couple who ask for a little food, water, of fuel, I'm going to have a hard time turning away. Some scuzzbag, meth-head idiot demanding a freebie, on the other hand, will receive being told to leave the premises posthaste.
All that said, I really wish people would take preparedness more seriously. I don't actively "evangelize" for a number of reasons, but I do try to help folks who are interested, and those already doing so, to provide with resources (e.g., books, manuals, ebooks, periodical articles, et al.). The more of us ready for "it" going down, the better, for all concerned.
For a short term disruption, yes, with few exceptions, we will render aid to others. Within reason and as long as it does not significantly impact safety. It is just being neighborly, really.
For a TEOTWAWKI event, like say an atomic exchange or EMP strike, all bets are off. The welfare of my wife and children come first. And I think any person, if they are honest, would make their household the first priority. That would be a tough thing to have to do amid a situation involving a lot of tough decisions.
The middle point SHTF events are a bit trickier. A Cascadia Rising event would be much longer for essential services to be restored. While the region and nation would eventually recover, it could be weeks or months before things even begin to resemble normalcy. In this scenario, I'm thinking we have to err on the side of "sorry you didn't prepare, but we don't know when resupply is going to happen ..." Lets face it, those would be some long months to live through, particularly if it went down in the winter.
And, to be candid, who is asking for help is going to play some roll. A stranded mother with a small child or an elderly couple who ask for a little food, water, of fuel, I'm going to have a hard time turning away. Some scuzzbag, meth-head idiot demanding a freebie, on the other hand, will receive being told to leave the premises posthaste.
All that said, I really wish people would take preparedness more seriously. I don't actively "evangelize" for a number of reasons, but I do try to help folks who are interested, and those already doing so, to provide with resources (e.g., books, manuals, ebooks, periodical articles, et al.). The more of us ready for "it" going down, the better, for all concerned.
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CONSIDER THIS . . . Catastrophe such as Cascadia. Do you think the Governorette and her like-minded cronies WON"T declare that if you have the means to help you will be required, at the point of a bayonet to fork over your goods, ALL your goods for the "good of the state."
At that point there will be no more pretense on their part that you live in a FREE society WITH RIGHTS!!!!!
Sheldon
At that point there will be no more pretense on their part that you live in a FREE society WITH RIGHTS!!!!!
Sheldon
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Member 3687
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Even though I agree this could happen during a Cascadia type event and they will at least try I feel it would be tough to enforce as they will have their hands full just trying to keep the peace and provide some semblance of law, order and government. They could mandate but short of going door to door it would be hard to enforce but as we seen with Katrina they did just that to take guns and move folks out breaking the law in the process.
So you do not put all your supplies out to be easily found and like many have said over time you do not advertise what you have even though most of us do in some form or another.
Even though I have thought about this happening during a bad situation it has never been on the top of my list to prepare for so I am not sure how I would react.
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I have more than once addressed this issue on various forums. It is one I hear often.
It is much wider than just SHTF situations, it is an everyday issue.
Those who think the 'haves' have a duty/obligation to the 'have nots' are the ones who are always arguing for this 'duty'. Do not the 'grasshoppers' have the 'duty' to provide for themselves and their families? It is a simple matter of responsibility.
When 'something' happens, all of sudden it isn't their responsibility, it is that of others, to help them - because they were not anticipating that 'something' even though stuff happens everyday. People are let go from their jobs, people get sick/injured, cars break, roofs leak, money runs short and so on - BTDT many many times. I did not grow up poor, but my family, each generation (that I knew), more or less started from scratch and had to struggle at first to make a go of it.
My first few years (the first decade or so), I made, on average, minimum wage back when that was less than $3/hr, when I had a job (the first five years or so, before enlisting, that was about 50% of the time). The next couple of decades were better but not that much better. I slowly worked up the ladder and now I am doing okay. But I NEVER said to anyone that they had a duty to provide anything to me or my family just because we had something and they didn't. A few people occasionally helped, but I paid them back, with interest. I never once did not pay a debt, and I earned everything I have by hard work.
Also, I always fulfilled my responsibilities to my family, providing for their shelter, food, and healthcare.
So I strongly resent it when someone tells me I have some kind of responsibility to them just because they have hit hard times. I do NOT. They like to play the guilt trip, but I don't let them.
Then there is the whole thing regarding SHTF - in whatever form that comes from. People in the USA have been told, time and again, to prepare for emergencies. They have witnessed what has happened.
It isn't like the USA is paradise and nothing bad ever happens here. We have earthquakes, flood, fires, wind storms, snow storms, droughts, crop failures, severe economic downturns, riots and so on. Even volcanic eruptions. There is no adult alive in the USA who grew up here, who has not witnessed these events happen and the results. Some of us have experienced these things first hand.
So it should not be a surprise when it happens to them.
But do they prepare? No - most do not. And by most I mean 90%+
No - they instead spend their money on the latest smartphone, TVs, expensive vacations, boats and jetskis, and any number of other non-essential items, going deep into debt. Do they throw an extra can of chili into their grocery cart once a week? No. Do they buy a gallon jug of water for $1 to store under their beds? No. They eat out instead. They go to a movie instead. They go to a concert instead.
Do they save up money for a rainy day? Do they save for retirement? Do they save for when they get laid off? No. They run up debt on a credit card instead. They take out a home equity loan for that vacation and/or boat and/or jetski and/or vacation home.
Then when something happens, they say that we, we who prepared, have a responsibility to them and their families. That we are killing their children.
So no. I have no sympathy for them. I have sympathy for their children, but you know what? My children and family come first before theirs. I am not going to risk my family's survival to help the family of a stranger, or even that of a neighbor.
It is much wider than just SHTF situations, it is an everyday issue.
Those who think the 'haves' have a duty/obligation to the 'have nots' are the ones who are always arguing for this 'duty'. Do not the 'grasshoppers' have the 'duty' to provide for themselves and their families? It is a simple matter of responsibility.
When 'something' happens, all of sudden it isn't their responsibility, it is that of others, to help them - because they were not anticipating that 'something' even though stuff happens everyday. People are let go from their jobs, people get sick/injured, cars break, roofs leak, money runs short and so on - BTDT many many times. I did not grow up poor, but my family, each generation (that I knew), more or less started from scratch and had to struggle at first to make a go of it.
My first few years (the first decade or so), I made, on average, minimum wage back when that was less than $3/hr, when I had a job (the first five years or so, before enlisting, that was about 50% of the time). The next couple of decades were better but not that much better. I slowly worked up the ladder and now I am doing okay. But I NEVER said to anyone that they had a duty to provide anything to me or my family just because we had something and they didn't. A few people occasionally helped, but I paid them back, with interest. I never once did not pay a debt, and I earned everything I have by hard work.
Also, I always fulfilled my responsibilities to my family, providing for their shelter, food, and healthcare.
So I strongly resent it when someone tells me I have some kind of responsibility to them just because they have hit hard times. I do NOT. They like to play the guilt trip, but I don't let them.
Then there is the whole thing regarding SHTF - in whatever form that comes from. People in the USA have been told, time and again, to prepare for emergencies. They have witnessed what has happened.
It isn't like the USA is paradise and nothing bad ever happens here. We have earthquakes, flood, fires, wind storms, snow storms, droughts, crop failures, severe economic downturns, riots and so on. Even volcanic eruptions. There is no adult alive in the USA who grew up here, who has not witnessed these events happen and the results. Some of us have experienced these things first hand.
So it should not be a surprise when it happens to them.
But do they prepare? No - most do not. And by most I mean 90%+
No - they instead spend their money on the latest smartphone, TVs, expensive vacations, boats and jetskis, and any number of other non-essential items, going deep into debt. Do they throw an extra can of chili into their grocery cart once a week? No. Do they buy a gallon jug of water for $1 to store under their beds? No. They eat out instead. They go to a movie instead. They go to a concert instead.
Do they save up money for a rainy day? Do they save for retirement? Do they save for when they get laid off? No. They run up debt on a credit card instead. They take out a home equity loan for that vacation and/or boat and/or jetski and/or vacation home.
Then when something happens, they say that we, we who prepared, have a responsibility to them and their families. That we are killing their children.
So no. I have no sympathy for them. I have sympathy for their children, but you know what? My children and family come first before theirs. I am not going to risk my family's survival to help the family of a stranger, or even that of a neighbor.
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But what about the poor starving kids who come to my door during SHTF?
Am I going to turn them away?
Probably - if I have to choose between them and my children - yes.
We each do it every day right now. How many of these people who play that guilt trip spend every cent they have, risking their children's survival today, to provide for the starving homeless millions (billions?) in the world?
They are out there right now, dying in droves. Do these people give them one red cent? Most do not. Oh, they may vote for gov. aid - forcing everybody else to help them, but do they contribute voluntarily from their after tax paycheck? No - most do not (FWIW, yes, I have contributed, voluntarily, out of pocket, a significant amount).
Out of sight, out of mind. But they will try to play that guilt card when it is they, having failed to prepare and provide for their families themselves, that need that help.
It is a failure to accept responsibility by shifting the blame to others.
You can't save everybody, especially if you yourself do not survive.
Am I going to turn them away?
Probably - if I have to choose between them and my children - yes.
We each do it every day right now. How many of these people who play that guilt trip spend every cent they have, risking their children's survival today, to provide for the starving homeless millions (billions?) in the world?
They are out there right now, dying in droves. Do these people give them one red cent? Most do not. Oh, they may vote for gov. aid - forcing everybody else to help them, but do they contribute voluntarily from their after tax paycheck? No - most do not (FWIW, yes, I have contributed, voluntarily, out of pocket, a significant amount).
Out of sight, out of mind. But they will try to play that guilt card when it is they, having failed to prepare and provide for their families themselves, that need that help.
It is a failure to accept responsibility by shifting the blame to others.
You can't save everybody, especially if you yourself do not survive.
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