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What would you have done...

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by davef, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. davef

    davef S.E. pdx Active Member

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    Im freaking out a bit cause this happened 2 blocks from my house and I had no idea till today...


    Mt. Tabor man robbed at gunpoint in his own home - KPTV - FOX 12

    My wife asked me what I would have done in that scenerio and I couldnt give her a firm answer. I mean here you are face to face with 2 tweakers packing heat. Sounds like they kind of caught him off guard. Youve got a neighbors house with a baby across the street and a neighbors house behind you and one 30 feet next to you. Not exactly the best place to draw and engage. To be honest, Im not sure what I would have done. Probably either refused to follow their orders and told them to bubblegum off or played along until I could create a diversion in my house long enough for me to draw and engage or attempted to create a diversion outside and ran for it.

    i could really use some advice here. When this stuff happens you say "oh my god" but when it happens 2 blocks from your house you got to say "this is the real deal and how do I prepare for it?" Ive taken classes on firearms handling but nothing that would make me feel confident in this scenerio. Any ideas?

    thank you
     
  2. mosinguy1

    mosinguy1 out by the ocean Active Member

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    1st I would have an alarm installed if you dont allready

    2nd learn your house to memeory as in what is behind your target at any given angle and if you have kids where there beds are and how they sleep.

    3rd learn your ammos for your weapon ie pentration and so on best home defense load.

    4th and final only YOU will know what you would do train and prepare as best you can.
     
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  3. DIRTYBRASS

    DIRTYBRASS just north of portlandia Active Member

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  4. OFADAN

    OFADAN Brownsville, OR Well-Known Member

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    Dave there are places where you can train that gives you actual experience working through situations like this against human actors in realistic simulations!! Your response dictates the violent criminal actors response just like the real world. You are forced to face the reality and deal with the situation during and after the crisis including justifying your actions to responding authorities afterwards. Mistakes, poor judgement and failures are best made in a simulation where there is coaching, support and correction and not on the street where there is no mercy nor forgiveness.

    I think you've just awakened to the revelation there is more to personal and family defense than just owning a gun and being able to shoot it well under stress. Painful lesson but welcome to reality!!!
     
  5. mosinguy1

    mosinguy1 out by the ocean Active Member

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    I personally would have shot, I know those things about my house and my kids. The kids know if the alarm sounds they hit the ground and roll under thier beds until I or Mom come get them. My HD weapons are all equiped with lights with presure switches so I or my Wife dont advertise coming around a corner or what have ya.
     
  6. davef

    davef S.E. pdx Active Member

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    OK remember that the victim was in his garage, he was outside mabye with his back turned. Not sure an alarm would do much good because he was outside in his detached garage and the home alarm was probably off. I feel confident in my ability to defend myself inside my home but this is a different animal. The victim was outside, forced into his home at gunpoint by 2 men.
     
  7. Rotty

    Rotty Skagit County Active Member

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    This may sound korny but run "What if" scenario's through your mind where ever you go. Sitting in your car, out grocery shopping, in church, sitting in your living room play the "What if" game. That will get you to observe your surroundings, become familiar with what is behind a wall, what type of ammo should you use etc, formulate a "What if" plan, hopefully it will prevent you from freezing when the SHTF. The "What if" scenario's will get you to think. You stop thinking, you become the victim. Train yourself to stay "Thinking", never stop. It takes practice. Most of the time the criminal is an opportunist and they are not expecting resistance. They are expecting fearful compliance. They unwhittingly look for victims that do not think for themselves in stressful situations. That's why you have to train yourself to "Think".

    A "Thinking" man is a dangerous man to contend with.
     
  8. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Depends if my family was home or not.
    If sotry anything and everything to keep them outside.
    Just look at the robbery and rape in the seattle area not too long ago.

    If not comply for a few and when you can get in your house maybe slam the door behind you and draw or go for your gun.

    I'd rather die fighting than with my hands and feet tied or having my family hurt in any way. Even if they shoot you outside in a neighborhood like that they would probably run off and not go inside where your family is.
     
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  9. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    This is the part that bothers me the most. The 'smoke' has barely cleared and Dunken has fallen into feeling empathy for his aggressors. Sorry if I come off as harsh but these are the feelings and beliefs the libs want us to have with regard to criminals - feel sorry for them, they didn't have the same opportunities we did, you should feel bad you have it so well and they have to resort to crime. I hope the next garage they decide to walk into isn't as friendly or 'helpful' - sorry, I hope they wind up face down and horizontal - soon. I have zero tolerance for petty criminals and could care less why or how they got to where they are. I cannot say what I would have done but I will say when I am home, on my property or in my shop I am carrying.
     
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  10. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    That guy was a victim from the get go. Set himself up to be a victim. And he was a very lucky victim,since he didn't go to the hospital.
    No,not because he's alive. Heck dead is dead and you don't suffer any more. They could have done anything they wanted to him ,making him wish he was dead,though.

    Now had he been prepared,carrying a gun and watching what was going on around his driveway, this may not have gone the way it did.
    Just being aware and watching out may have deterred them.
    Having a gun on his side may have done it.

    BUT! If he had been watching out and drawn or at least had his hand on the weapon when they came in the drive,they most definitely would have looked for another target.
    So if you live by yourself and don't care,this could happen easily. But if you have a family and are armed and aware of what's going on,you probably won't need to shoot. Awareness itself can be a big deterrent for criminals.
    I caught a guy pacing me in the corner of my eye,following me to the back parking lot. I turned and watched him a moment. He changed directions.

    Back to having a family. If you have family members in the house,you should be looking out for them and be prepared to protect them,no?
    I mean I would have done whatever it took to keep them out of the house,living by myself. Now with children in the house,I wouldn't have hesitated to drop these guys. No way in HE!! they would have gotten in the house.

    So being 2 blocks away,you need to start carrying around the house and make sure everyone is watching each others back. Make sure the kids are watching out. Make sure the wife is ready to take control of the situation if you aren't around.
    Make sure you know your surroundings and capabilities and you ammo's capabilities. Have someone outside helping and watching when you have your head buried in a box
    These guys got a reprieve.They may be a little more embolden next time.
    They may want some fun next time.

    YOU need to be ready.
    Ready to shoot them when you see the guns being drawn.
     
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  11. mosinguy1

    mosinguy1 out by the ocean Active Member

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    I too think he didnt have his gaurd up enough and came out of it very very lucky. I always have my head on a swivel and catch myself looking up everytime I hear a car on our road. I am lucky my driveway is gravel and i here cars as they come up.

    I also think a motion sensor in the driveway is a great help, ours rings in the house. I need to make it sound outside too.
     
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  12. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    To the OP, Situation awareness 24/7. The ONLY time I don't have my Colt Commander on me is at work or sleeping. Some would call it paranoid, some would call it prepared. I was recently asked why I always have a weapon on my person? My answer, because a cop is far to heavy.

    I would hate to ever have to use it, but as you now full well know, you don't know when or where the need may arise and even the Boy scouts know, be prepared.
     
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  13. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    And to answer the original question I would have most likely recognized the threat immediately and grabbed whatever was at my disposal (lots of sharp, throw-able objects in my shop) and flung it toward the two, and most likely rushed them while screaming and heading toward the door and when practical drawing and immediately hitting the ground and assuming a modified prone position, ensuring proper sight picture and firing. I am not going to be a victim at/in my house or shop. I cannot imagine a better 'to fire' situation than this.
     
  14. Rotty

    Rotty Skagit County Active Member

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  15. davef

    davef S.E. pdx Active Member

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    Ive thought a lot about it today, what would happen from this point on if something similiar happened. At first I thought if I was alone and they were trying to force me inside, it might be worthwhile to use the inside of the house as a tactical advantage provided you had some kind of plan. If the family was home It would be completely opposite and Id do everything in my power to keep them out. Its probably a good idea to figure some angles outside the house that you know would be a safe backdrop and subtly try to move the perps into that line. Cant really retreat or run away if your family is unprotected inside. The thing is they are tweakers. I think of tweakers as zombies. Hard to predict whats going thru their heads besides "ill do anything for more drugs." And this happened at 2pm!

    What would do you think would have happened if the guy started screaming loudly, annoyed the tweakers and they fire, scare them and they retreat or would it even phase them?
     
  16. garguren

    garguren Southern Oregon New Member

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    I can't say for sure what I would do. It is something to think about for sure. I do seriously question a few of the responses so far that I've read though. Albeit the story says the two guys were potentially tweakers however some of you must be superman. I understand the argument to protect your family, (given the info in the story we can infer that the gentleman does not have children, based on him having a "male partner" and being on the older side of things.

    I think there a couple of things to address with a lot of the common responses that you see. First of all I think we can all unanimously agree that our primary purpose is to protect our family. With that being our main concern, why do so many advocate for throwing themselves at a situation? You cant protect anyone when you're dead! In this particular case lets just assume for a moment that these are not tweakers, or at the very least they are prepared tweakers.

    By the time he turned around they have already pulled out a gun. If you try to throw something at them, you're most likely going to be shot. The fact that they pulled a gun in broad day light speaks a lot about their overall concern. If you charge them, you're most likely going to die. If you doubt this, if it was the other way around, how long would it take you to reacquire target if someone threw something at you? Especially if there was two of you. I can speak for myself only here of course, but I would venture to say the odds of someone ever getting close to me to try and do me harm in this particular scenario is low.

    It seems a lot of people either greatly over estimate their ability or are just plain delusional. All i'm saying is simply lets take our ego out of it for a bit and try to think more rationally. Everyone always says that they always assume everyone has a gun. I agree completely, so why do we always assume we're better then the guy who potentially has a gun? Wouldn't it be just as smart to say always assume everyone has a gun and is as equally trained with that gun as I am? With this new thought in mind wouldn't it be wise to now use our brains rather then over-relying on our ability?

    As I said, I don't know for sure what I would do. Would I make a foolish bold charge at them? Maybe, but I hope not. I'm not trying to insult anyone's plans or ideas or them directly. I'm simply trying to say that our goal is to protect ourselves and our family from violent people. However the gun we carry is not the strongest weapon we have to protect our family. Our brains and the ability to stay calm and think is our best weapon, our gun is simply one of our tools to do just that.

    Again please don't take offense to any of this, just want to point out another side of things that is often neglected.
     
  17. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Haha This is actually the first thing I thought of. Giving them a smile just before throwing a bunch of tools at them,hoping one fell down.
    Man a shovel across the head would really make a guy think about what house to drop into.
    I'd be so mad the gun would never come out.You drop one of them and the other would run like a rabbit.
    Lay him in the gutter,clean up the drive and go back to your Ebay crap.
    Call the cops after he's done bleeding of course.
     
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  18. OLDNEWBIE

    OLDNEWBIE State of Flux Well-Known Member

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    The libs will use this as a teaching moment for certain. Just comply and no harm will come to you! See, nobody really needs a gun, besides the one robbing you is really the victim here. Society is to blame for his actions and if you defend yourself then you are part of the problem.
    We all know that if we toughened up the gun laws and stepped up the wealth distribution this kind of thing wouldn’t happen anymore. Utopia is just a few more election cycles away!
     
  19. shooter58

    shooter58 Vancouver, WA Active Member

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    You can train and prepare but in the end, the situation you are faced with will most likely be quite different than what you trained for. I’m not saying not to prepare but bottom line is that your best defense when faced with that unforeseen set of circumstances is to never let the situation go down as the offender intended. Somehow or someway derail his plan. Make things happen your way and not his. There is no sure fire way to prevent harm but I always try to focus on changing the game to my rules.
     
  20. salmonriverjohn

    salmonriverjohn N.W Oregon coast, Gods country Well-Known Member

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    I agree shooter58, the element of surprise cannot be over stated and the unknown is just that. Ever read the teachings of Sun Tzu? Every one should that's discussing this topic and thread, it's well worth the read.
     
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