What if we get an incoming ICBM alert like Hawaii?

[johnny bob]

I had not been aware of the Japanese order to kill all POW on 17/18 Aug 1945 until I read the book Unbroken. This book was about Louis Zamperini and written by Laura Hillenbrand. Louis was a POW and was among those POWs that were saved by the bomb. Japan surrendered on 15 Aug 1945. I have since checked Wikipedia and Google for more information about the kill order.

 

[ob1]

Ummm, Hiroshima was bombed to stop the war. As others have said, to save American soldiers lives. We were winning the war in the Pacific and had worked our way to where Japan was the only target left. But they wouldn't quit and so a land invasion of Japan seemed inevitable. Having experienced the high cost in lives to retake islands under Japanese control, it was estimated the cost in lives to fight on Japan mainland to be very prohibitive. Since we had just developed the "bomb", it was worth a try to strike fear into them. But their generals didn't care, they didn't surrender after Hiroshima. Maybe thinking it was a fluke or a one time event. When we dropped the second bomb, the original target was indeed obscured by clouds, so the secondary target was Nagasaki. Even then, their generals did not want to stop fighting. The cabinet met, it was three politicians for, three generals against surrender. The Emperor, in a break with tradition, cast the deciding vote.

I couldn't agree more.
From 1944 on, the Japanese became increasingly aware that they would not be able to win the conventional war that they had started. The high Imperial command became suicidal in the way they utilized their human assets. In the battle of Philippine Sea, the beginning of the Kamikaze tactic manifested itself. Two large naval battle groups of it's remaining carriers and Battleships were sent to certain death against Macarthur's invasion force. Japanese technology and tactics began to incorporate the Bushido suicide as a key ingredient. The well known Kamikaze plane attack was born in that period. Iwo Jima was another hint of things to come, as was the suicide attack of the Battleship Yamato, suicide human aerial rocket planes and one way Kaiten human torpedoes. They even created the Shinyo suicide motor boat, hidden in caves, ready to be launched against US invasion craft.

I've spent considerable time in the Philippines, you can still see the Shinyo launch caves throughout the Islands:

It's no secret that civilians were considered yet another asset to be used when the invasion force came to the main Japanese Islands. Kind of like the middle east, but with everyone, from old ladies to kids being assigned their personal suicide station.

In 1945, the shock and awe of the bombs were the only feasible answer.​

 

[ob1]

I had not been aware of the Japanese order to kill all POW on 17/18 Aug 1945 until I read the book Unbroken. This book was about Louis Zamperini and written by Laura Hillenbrand. Louis was a POW and was among those POWs that were saved by the bomb. Japan surrendered on 15 Aug 1945. I have since checked Wikipedia and Google for more information about the kill order.

Your research is not finished. Research the murder of American POW's on the Imperial Cruiser "Tone" and the Japanese Unit 731 {after lunch}

The Asian Auschwitz: The Atrocities of Unit 731

 

[Ura-Ki]

And further research of the Island of Chichi Jima and what went on there during the war!

 

[CoastRange57]

Ironey, I live about 40 miles south and west of Cheyenne Mt and Kit Peak (I can see Kit peak from my deck)

So could it have been my imagination or the fact it was 1981 and I was a little bit... well pretty high and been drinking a bit cruising down the highway there and saw this green laser shooting out of the eastern plains up into the mountains in that area ?? Freaked us out pretty good.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Norks have terror missiles? Scud?
Range? on a good day?
Accuracy? Kidding?
Targets? Wash DC, Hollywood CA, The Islands, Japan?

America have sure-bet missiles? big, little, fat, skinny, short long, red, white?
Range? near, far, any where, any time?
Accuracy? Gnat's butt?
Targets? silly question?

One of our boomers can put an ICBM in a telephone booth from 1500 miles away. We have roughly a dozen boomers on patrol at any one time, totally unfindable. Each boomer carries 18 ICBMs with multiple, independently targeted warheads. NK will be a glass parking lot 30 minutes after an attack on the US. The same goes for anyone else that cares to get involved on their side. And that's just our submarines.

 

[Ura-Ki]

And lets not forget a single Ticonderoga class missile cruiser can rain down up to 24 "special" Tomahawks from a fair distance out, and our DDG's can bring up to 16 to the party! That's a lot of MASD in a single naval strike package, within a naval taskforce! Then there are the carrier planes with "special" munitions! Holy crap batman, that's a lot of fire and fury from one single battle group!
Look out rocket boy, hells commin, and the Navy don't play NICE!

 

[Argonaut]

You guys are pretty well versed......and we probably don't know the half of it. When I got out, I was supervising portions of 7 Rescue detachments at the 40ARRS. One was the unit at Edwards that along with the rescue mission, did test support for Edwards and Vandenburg AFB's. That was over 30 years ago and we still don't talk about a lot of stuff we were involved with. I can only imagine what is out there today. Nobody even knows for sure if little rocket man can miniaturize a nuke small enough to fit in a missile. I still think it is more logical for him to float a weapon laden cargo ship into someplace like the Oakland harbor and threaten to set it off. That would eliminate any need for aiming and miniaturizing a weapon and he might even survive the event (if Obama was still president) We have a long history of overestimating the enemies capeability so when we finnlydiscover the truth.......they are silly. I remember seeing the MU26 (?) Foxbat at Edwards before we shipped it back to Russia in boxes.........it was supposed to be the ultimate B52 killer but was such a POS even the test pilots didn't want to fly it......then there were the best tanks the Russians had against Swartzkoph in the desert......an absurd matchup.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Back in gulf 1 we watched F-111s bomb the hell out of those Soviet tanks with consistent ease, it got so bad for the I-wackies, that they didnt sleep any where near their tanks! The fast movers called tank plinkin, and it was devastating, the beat technology renderd worthless by a 30 year old bomber dropping dumb unguided bombs! Worse was the A-10 strikes, that a was no defence against an A-10 inbound with a load, you ran as fast as you could and krapped your self watching your prized tank go up in smoke and fire! Yup, nasty stuff! Flew over BB-63 as she fired a broad side into a shore battery, tracked a roach coach and hit it on the third round!!! How's that for a grand old lady from WW-2! Didn't even see it coming!
Saw a large cargo truck try and hide under a bridge, F-15 echo dropped a jdam from WAY out there and plinked that truck with out disturbing a single grain of sand on the bridge roadway above! Thats nkt even the super secret stuff!!!

 

[Skier]

One of our boomers can put an ICBM in a telephone booth from 1500 miles away. We have roughly a dozen boomers on patrol at any one time, totally unfindable. Each boomer carries 18 ICBMs with multiple, independently targeted warheads. NK will be a glass parking lot 30 minutes after an attack on the US. The same goes for anyone else that cares to get involved on their side. And that's just our submarines.

Do SLCMs or Tomahawks count as ICBMs and/or have MIRVs? I thought our subs carried single warhead cruize missiles... No? (I'm not as familiar with Navy stuff as much as AF stuff, so I could be wrong.)

 

[Skier]

On a side note, with all this talk of Nukes and stuff, I'm reminded of this old, but funny video. ;-)

(Plus, the ending is nice, with California leaving). LOL

 

[Ura-Ki]

Subs are ICBM/MIRV capable depending on load out, others Not normally tactical, or low yield nuke. Normally only specific ALCM airframes would carry a tactical warhead! A Tomahawk could be equipped, but generally only standard HE or other specialized application specific munitions would be used. The Tomahawk is a low flying, subsonic, low observable weapon best used against static targets in a high risk area from a protected stand off position ( think of it as really long range artillery) and can be equipped with Multi Munitions ( CLMM) Intel loads, or other payloads as needed. There are about 30 payloads for the system, but a small tactical, low yield device would be difficult to employ. There are other systems for Tactical or Strategic payload delivery, but most are ether mothballed, deactivated, or still classified, so much beyond that, I cannot answer! I can tell you, there are some scary things out there that would worry me if I were RocketBoy, but he don't know any more then you do, so until something gets used, it will be a nasty surprise for all to see!

 

[Skier]

Subs are ICBM/MIRV capable depending on load out, others Not normally tactical, or low yield nuke. Normally only specific ALCM airframes would carry a tactical warhead! A Tomahawk could be equipped, but generally only standard HE or other specialized application specific munitions would be used. The Tomahawk is a low flying, subsonic, low observable weapon best used against static targets in a high risk area from a protected stand off position ( think of it as really long range artillery) and can be equipped with Multi Munitions ( CLMM) Intel loads, or other payloads as needed. There are about 30 payloads for the system, but a small tactical, low yield device would be difficult to employ. There are other systems for Tactical or Strategic payload delivery, but most are ether mothballed, deactivated, or still classified, so much beyond that, I cannot answer! I can tell you, there are some scary things out there that would worry me if I were RocketBoy, but he don't know any more then you do, so until something gets used, it will be a nasty surprise for all to see!

Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the overview. I thought the Tomahawk carried W80s like the ALCM, but I looked it up, and [according to my highly secret source, in this case, Wikipedia ;-) ], I guess they "retired" the W80 option. Yeah, my guess is that Un could do some damage, but wouldn't stand a chance after his first strike. I'd never expect a sane person to even consider a first strike against the US, but no one ever accused him of being sane... As for the threat, I just see it as one other unlikely, but possible, disaster that it doesn't hurt to have a bit of a plan/preps for.

 

[Colts4me]

Was reading the goveror of Hawaii knew very quickly that this wasn't real but forgot the password to inform the public.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Do SLCMs or Tomahawks count as ICBMs and/or have MIRVs? I thought our subs carried single warhead cruize missiles... No? (I'm not as familiar with Navy stuff as much as AF stuff, so I could be wrong.)

The Trident II carries nuclear MIRVs. Launches from under water.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I can tell you, there are some scary things out there that would worry me if I were RocketBoy, but he don't know any more then you do, so until something gets used, it will be a nasty surprise for all to see!

The first time I read a Tom Clancy book it was "The Hunt for Red October". I was blown away, not because I didn't know about this stuff (I was a tech in the Advanced Underseas Weapons Shop at Subase Pearl), but because somebody actually wrote about it in public. There was way more there than anybody outside the SS should have known, or made public. I have always assumed that the rest of Clancy's stuff was of equal accuracy and depth, making it a scary world indeed.

Let us just say that just one of our SSBNs has enough fire power to put anybody who cares to mess with us out of business pretty quickly. Even our fast attacks carrying Mk45 torpedoes only needed to get close in order to score, if you get my drift. One torpedo and poof! There goes the whole NK navy.

 

[RicInOR]

xkcd: Hawaii