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and I thought my Drozd took a long time to load. For $1000 bucks I want a better faster way to shoot BB's full auto
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+1. There is no Federal law regulating full auto BB guns, enforced by the ATF. Mainly because it is not, by definition, a firearm. But there is a Washington state law about ANY projectile being shot in a full auto mode. BB guns included.
Hey Reindeer!
Man, thanks for the comprehensive scoop. I sort of let this idea lapse sometime back when I looked for an old school compressed-air carnival/arcade type full-auto BB gun. It seems they're expensive, not terribly accurate, tethered to a compressed air source, and largely not available without buying a whole arcade setup. There may be some exceptions, but that was the general feel of it.
Now my interest is piqued again after stumbling over reviews of Drozd and similar. Not keen on burning through a ton of those little CO2 cartridges, I see that adaptors are available for 9-, 12- and 20-ounce CO2 cans, which I can get refilled locally. Certainly willing to adapt some sort of sling/carrier device, I'm all fired up again.
...with more questions of course:
- If I build an arcade type target setup with a gently deflecting plywood BB trap/collector behind it, can I re-use recovered BB's after a good rinse and dry?
- I assume I'd keep at least two CO2 cans on hand (so I wouldn't run out completely at midnight with no refills). Do refilled spares "keep" for awhile?
- Any concerns about breathing several ounces of expelled CO2 in an enclosed space? (I skipped Physics and Biology to learn chords on my guitar.)
- What else should a noob like me consider in order to get started?
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge!
You're welcome!
1. Generally NOT recommended as the BB can deform. HOWEVER I do know of a couple of people that do anyway. LOL! I would say though that as long as you are using steel BBs fired into a soft target (in your case plywood made out of pine), it probably wouldn't hurt anything to at least try.
2. Yes, they should keep indefinitely. The only thing is that you MIGHT have to get the tank hydrostatic tested every 3 years. When I was first getting into the hobby, online sources were saying that CO2 tanks didn't need to be checked, but the local shop here in town that does refills says they do. Cost is typically $35 for the test, so for a small CO2 tank, probably cheaper to replace.
3. No concerns... CO2 is non-toxic (Al Gore not-withstanding! LOL!).
4. Another option to consider is a High Pressure Air (HPA) setup. The tanks cost a little more, and they do have to get the hydrostatic test every three years for sure. However, HPA doesn't absorb heat when it expands like CO2 does... meaning that it won't freeze the bottle after so many shots and lose pressure. Another advantage is you can also run higher pressures out of HPA which of course means higher velocities :-D Most of the adapters to convert your guns out there would accept either source.
Be curious to know what you have in mind?
+1. There is no Federal law regulating full auto BB guns, enforced by the ATF. Mainly because it is not, by definition, a firearm. But there is a Washington state law about ANY projectile being shot in a full auto mode. BB guns included.
Had a day off and made some phone calls to learn more about my BB gun project before I plunk down big bucks (hoping I got it right). It's a BIG leap from my Crosman single shot plinkers to full auto with external gas.
Those in the know with Airsoft and serious BB guns seem to agree that high pressure air (HPA) is preferable even to bulk CO2. An "aluminum 80" bulk air cylinder (SCUBA tank) can be filled to 3000 psi for $7. Through a $38 adapter, it puts 10-12 usable fills into a 48 cubic inch bottle that hooks to the gun (similar to a CO2 bottle). True, psi gets lower with each fill, as you're simply equalizing pressure between 2 tanks, but there should be plenty of power for a dozen decent charges.
Compare that with CO2. Sports Authority refills 20 ounce bottles for $10 each time. Maybe some cheaper places around, but that's what I found.
So, in a nutshell, frequent use makes the HPA investment worthwhile – if you live near a place that refills scuba tanks.
Ray at Drozd was great. A lot of businesses won't chat more than 1 minute on the phone if there's not a Visa card involved. But Ray had answers, resolving questions I still had after studying the Drozd webpage. I've pretty much decided what mods I want, and I'll pull the trigger in a few weeks if I stay this fired up.
Ray says he avoids giving advice per se, because choices are personal when it comes to customizing any piece. But he did say "Don't scrimp on BB's or batteries."
Paraphrasing:
Use steel only. It's more accurate and feeds better at super high rates than copper. And don't reuse them. Even with a "soft trap" like I envisioned, the BB's can deform when they hit each other in the trap. Even slightly dented BB's are bad in a precision system approaching 1000 fps - unless you want to wear out expensive parts and degrade performance.
And use Energizer lithium batteries only – never Alkaline.
Had a day off and made some phone calls to learn more about my BB gun project before I plunk down big bucks (hoping I got it right). It's a BIG leap from my Crosman single shot plinkers to full auto with external gas.
Those in the know with Airsoft and serious BB guns seem to agree that high pressure air (HPA) is preferable even to bulk CO2. An "aluminum 80" bulk air cylinder (SCUBA tank) can be filled to 3000 psi for $7. Through a $38 adapter, it puts 10-12 usable fills into a 48 cubic inch bottle that hooks to the gun (similar to a CO2 bottle). True, psi gets lower with each fill, as you're simply equalizing pressure between 2 tanks, but there should be plenty of power for a dozen decent charges.
Compare that with CO2. Sports Authority refills 20 ounce bottles for $10 each time. Maybe some cheaper places around, but that's what I found.
So, in a nutshell, frequent use makes the HPA investment worthwhile – if you live near a place that refills scuba tanks.
Ray at Drozd was great. A lot of businesses won't chat more than 1 minute on the phone if there's not a Visa card involved. But Ray had answers, resolving questions I still had after studying the Drozd webpage. I've pretty much decided what mods I want, and I'll pull the trigger in a few weeks if I stay this fired up.
Ray says he avoids giving advice per se, because choices are personal when it comes to customizing any piece. But he did say "Don't scrimp on BB's or batteries."
Paraphrasing:
Use steel only. It's more accurate and feeds better at super high rates than copper. And don't reuse them. Even with a "soft trap" like I envisioned, the BB's can deform when they hit each other in the trap. Even slightly dented BB's are bad in a precision system approaching 1000 fps - unless you want to wear out expensive parts and degrade performance.
And use Energizer lithium batteries only – never Alkaline.
I've heard nothing but good about Daisy BBs, but nobody carries them locally unfortunately. Suppose I'll need to order some the next time I'm over at Pyramyd Air.
Yeah, I hear you about pellets, and I feel the same way about the Crosman brand. Personally I like Beeman Kodiak heavy pellets for my Gamo break-action... they lose a little in velocity, but more than make up for it in penetration. The only problem is that they are a bit more spendy than the Wal-Mart stuff. However I digress!
Beeman Kodiak Extra Heavy .177 Cal, 10.20 Grains, Round Nose, 300 ct. - AirgunStyle.com
Just a note....
I remember seeing an article about the Crossman MAR 177 upper for an AR15.
In it someone from the ATF made the statement that as long as the Crossman
upper was attached to an AR lower, the entire weapon was considered a FIREARM
and came under firearm rules.....Sounds like some over zealous Crap to me!:nuts:
I wonder what they consider the cross bow upper as???
Jack...
I've heard nothing but good about Daisy BBs, but nobody carries them locally unfortunately. Suppose I'll need to order some the next time I'm over at Pyramyd Air.
Yeah, I hear you about pellets, and I feel the same way about the Crosman brand. Personally I like Beeman Kodiak heavy pellets for my Gamo break-action... they lose a little in velocity, but more than make up for it in penetration. The only problem is that they are a bit more spendy than the Wal-Mart stuff. However I digress!
Beeman Kodiak Extra Heavy .177 Cal, 10.20 Grains, Round Nose, 300 ct. - AirgunStyle.com
Yup, I purchased my steel Daisy BB's at Walmart or Target, probably 2-3 years ago. I hope they still have 'em. In review, I see there's a bigger difference in price than I first cited because of the BB count ($16.93 for 4000 steel vs. $13.87 for 6000 copper), almost twice as much per round for steel, but well worth it for the increased accuracy IMHO.
If your local store doesn't carry them, you can get the zinc plated steel online through Toolking.com.
<broken link removed>
<broken link removed>
Just a note....
I remember seeing an article about the Crossman MAR 177 upper for an AR15.
In it someone from the ATF made the statement that as long as the Crossman
upper was attached to an AR lower, the entire weapon was considered a FIREARM
and came under firearm rules.....Sounds like some over zealous Crap to me!:nuts:
I wonder what they consider the cross bow upper as???
Jack...